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Whats next

Brass Magnet

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J.Gleason wrote:
Could we get clarification on the school zone ban from Van Hollen? Maybe he could clarify if this was meant as an enhancer.

The problem with this is that clarification of the legislators intent is up to the courts. I don't know how you are evenreading this into the law? Van Hollen can clarify whatthe law actually says, not it's intent.

I wouldn't worry about attorney's fees until we hear back from them. I also asked my attorney to see if any of the attorneys that looked this would work pro-bono.

The class action idea has merit considering the Heller model. I believe this may be a good idea when thinking how they whittled it down to one guy.


ETA: Even if working pro-bono for us, if the lawyers win they are usually entitled to be paid a fee by the state somewhere near thecurrent hourly average. At least, that's how the lawyers working Heller are getting paid. Remember, it's the states fault if this is found unconstitutional. I do believe they can evenbring suit against the state for compensation if need be.
 

bnhcomputing

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springfield 1911 wrote:
Would love to know what attorney general said to District Attorney that helped him in coming to his decision. second guessing is not knowing.

May 13, 2009 Racine County District Attorney Mike Nieskes said he was discussing the incident with the Attorney General’s Office, as local law enforcement want clarification about what to do in such situations


whole stories here
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/25572.html

Submit an open records request for all information, emails, documentation, letters, phone calls, corespondence, etcpertaining to "firearms, firearm, or gun". Submit it via email AND in writting. They MUST respond by either giving you the information, OR by telling you why they denied your request.
Date

SUBJECT: Open Records Request re “firearms, firearm, gun, open carry,school zones"

JANE DOE, City Clerk

City Hall
Address
City, State, Zip


Cc: John Doe, DA
John Doe, Chief Police
John Doe, City Administrator
John Doe, Mayor




Dear City Clerk:

This is an Open Records Request for all records pertaining to open carry of firearms or guns in or around school zonesdated on or after April 20, 2009.

I am requesting any record, including but not limited to emails, faxes, applications, permits, letters, police reports, and memoranda, from all parties and departments listed on this request (clerk, DA, administrator, police, mayor) pertaining tothe open carry of firearms, display of firearms, and/or discharge of firearms within city limits and/or the 1000ft of school property, “safe school zone.”

As you know, the law requires you to respond to this request “as soon as possible and without delay.”

Please also be aware that the Open Records law “shall be construed in every instance with the presumption of complete public access consistent with the conduct of governmental business. The denial of access generally is contrary to the public interest and only in exceptional cases can access be denied.” If you deny my request, the law requires you to do so in writing and state what part of the law you believe entitles you to deny my request. Wis. Stat 19.35(4)(a).

The Open Records Act states that you may charge for “the actual, necessary and direct cost” of locating records, if this exceeds $50, and for photocopies. The Wisconsin Department of Justice advises that copying fees under the Open Records law should ne “around 15 cents per page and that anything in excess of 25 cents maybe be subject.” Please advise me before processing this request if the total cost will exceed $75.00.

Thank you in advance for responding to this request at your earliest convenience and I will also mail you a hard copy of this request to: JANE DOE, City Clerk , City Hall, Address, City, State, Zip.

Electronic delivery of records appreciated at my email address. Alternatively, please mail records to my home address listed below.

Sincerely,

Your Name
Address
City, State, Zip
Phone Number
This is a sample letter, but it should be pretty close to what you need. They should get back to you within 14 days, and the responseshould include a copy of the police report for the incident in question. Remember to update all the "green" text with the proper information.
 

J.Gleason

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Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
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Brass Magnet wrote:
J.Gleason wrote:
Could we get clarification on the school zone ban from Van Hollen? Maybe he could clarify if this was meant as an enhancer.

The problem with this is that clarification of the legislators intent is up to the courts. I don't know how you are evenreading this into the law? Van Hollen can clarify whatthe law actually says, not it's intent.

I wouldn't worry about attorney's fees until we hear back from them. I also asked my attorney to see if any of the attorneys that looked this would work pro-bono.

The class action idea has merit considering the Heller model. I believe this may be a good idea when thinking how they whittled it down to one guy.


ETA: Even if working pro-bono for us, if the lawyers win they are usually entitled to be paid a fee by the state somewhere near thecurrent hourly average. At least, that's how the lawyers working Heller are getting paid. Remember, it's the states fault if this is found unconstitutional. I do believe they can evenbring suit against the state for compensation if need be.
Good point, I guess I was looking a little to far out of the box.
 

J.Gleason

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Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
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Just fired off this email to my State Rep.

Dear Representative Ott,

I was wondering if you would move the legislative table in support for the petition online at opencarry.org in supporting the removal of the transportation restrictions and school zone ban on fire arms.

I believe that the unconstitutional school zone ban was initially meant as an enhancer statute to increase penalties for crimes committed in school zones. This statute could be changed to read that firearms are banned from school property during the normal hours of school operation. Therefore, the statute would still have the same effect as law or an enhancer.

If a person open carrys a fire arm outside of school hours while walking through a school zone, how is this any different from open carrying while walking outside the school zone. The School zone ban is a blatant infringement on our 2nd Amendment Rights.

The transportation restrictions for fire arms is unconstitutional and infringes on our right to carry a fire arm. By keeping the fire arm unloaded and out of reach in the vehicle, this also violates our right to self defense in the event of a crime such as a car jacking or robbery. When a police officer performs a traffic stop he should approach every vehicle with the mind set that there could be a weapon inside anyways, so the argument that law enforcement uses to cover the safety of their officers is really invalid at this point as only non-law abiding citizens would be interested in harming a police officer anyway.

Any enforcement of these laws against law abiding citizens exercising their 2nd Amendment Rights will inevitably end up in front of the Supreme Court at which time these laws will be found to be unconstitutional resulting in punitive damages against the state and all parties involved. Why do things have to go to such extremes before common sense comes into play.

The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that the 2nd Amendment right is an individual right that shall not be infringed.

That you for your state service and I sincerely hope you will consider my request.

Your support will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

James A. Gleason
15 Lehner St.
Chilton, WI. 53014
 

Lammie

Campaign Veteran
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Messages
907
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, Wisconsin, USA
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Too much emphasis has been placed on the 2nd amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Our power lays with the Wisconsin constitution Article I section 25. The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose". No ambiguity, plain english, and directly applicable to us.

The only states the 7th circuit opinion directly impacts are the six that do not have a right to keep and bear arms amendment in their state constitution. California, Iowa, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York.
 

Brass Magnet

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Lammie wrote:
Too much emphasis has been placed on the 2nd amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Our power lays with the Wisconsin constitution Article I section 25. The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose". No ambiguity, plain english, and directly applicable to us.

+1

Keep itabout Wisconsin. There is not need to muddy the waters.Heller is discussed as a model for a way to proceed not for it's ruling that is only applicable (at this time) to the Feds.
 

bnhcomputing

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Brass Magnet wrote:
Heller is discussed as a model for a way to proceed not for it's ruling that is only applicable (at this time) to the Feds.

Right!

If we cannot get permits, because there isn't even a application process, then maybe we can get it over turned.

We also need to push back as hard as possible against these new illegal "gun ordinances"
 

pvtschultz

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Apr 22, 2009
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299
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West Allis, WI, ,
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Pointman wrote:
Why not tackle something that you know you can win, like the Milwaukee County Parks ban? "We can carry in school zones, just not in local parks, because the police said we can't" seems pretty silly to me.
I agree wholeheartedly PM. I have a really nice bean-bag game, anyone up for a friendly competition in a Milwaukee Co park. New Berlin also has a similar ordinance against carrying arms in their city parks.
 

Lammie

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A city park demo might be a good idea while the open carry issue is hot and newsworthy to the media. Just remember to stay out of the pavilions, outhouses and other buildings.
 

bnhcomputing

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Lammie wrote:
A city park demo might be a good idea while the open carry issue is hot and newsworthy to the media. Just remember to stay out of the pavilions, outhouses and other buildings.
And choose one that is NOT within 1,000ft of school grounds.
 

Sajuuk

Regular Member
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Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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bnhcomputing wrote:
Lammie wrote:
A city park demo might be a good idea while the open carry issue is hot and newsworthy to the media. Just remember to stay out of the pavilions, outhouses and other buildings.
And choose one that is NOT within 1,000ft of school grounds.
I was already looking at Mitchell Park, personally. It's where the family and I go for the 4th of July fireworks. According to the school zone map, it's free and clear of those pesky brown circles. ;)
 

hugh jarmis

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Why not tackle something that you know you can win, like the Milwaukee County Parks ban? "We can carry in school zones, just not in local parks, because the police said we can't" seems pretty silly to me.
"pointman" when would you like to meet and carry in a Milwaukee County Park?
 

GRB

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Sheboygan, Wisconsin, USA
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I emailed the WI Gun Owners and they referred my to a lawyer in Milwaukee, I sent him an email with the letters I got from the city of Sheboygan about issuing a license to carry in a school zone. I am trying to set up a meeting with him to discuss what options I/we would have. I will keep you posted when he gets back to me.
 

Brass Magnet

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GRB wrote:
I emailed the WI Gun Owners and they referred my to a lawyer in Milwaukee, I sent him an email with the letters I got from the city of Sheboygan about issuing a license to carry in a school zone. I am trying to set up a meeting with him to discuss what options I/we would have. I will keep you posted when he gets back to me.
Cool, that's another good start.
 

hugh jarmis

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grb, maybe i missed it, what was the content of those letters? do you have a link to a thread if its already posted.

also, I've been holding off on posting this just to think about it for a while but Ihave an attorney who is more than qualified with previous experience in this area who has given me a cost of $5,000 to file a civil lawsuit tochallenge the constitutionality of the school zone ordinance. We'd need $1,000 toget the ball rolling and the rest we could pay as the suit progresses.Considering I have over 1000 signatures on the petition,I would think $5,000 would be easy to raise. Maybe even have a couple cookouts or "bake sales" as pointman suggests to raise money. ;)

50 people contributing $100 could make this happen. (or 500 people contributing $10 could make it happen)

I don't think he'd have a problem if I posted his (the attorneys)information. He has a very good reputation. I'd just want to get his permission before I go ahead and make his name public. (can't imagine he'd care, but just to be safe)


edit: also not to say that we shouldn't still explore other opportunities. Because of the severely discounted rate my attorney contact would be doing this for, he isn't going to be heartbroken if we find representation closer. If we can find someone local to file it too who is qualified, bonus. (or someone who's got a near and dear spot in their heart for gun rights who'll do it pro-bono if we cover expenses) Let me know what you come up with on your end.
 

Brass Magnet

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Hugh,

I'm still waiting on hearing back from my attorney and I think it's good to get a lot of legal opinions before we would file. Did the lawyer you talked to thinkour suit idea is viable? Thats the key thing I want to hear before dedicating anymoney. I would think a lawyer would be able to give that information for free. Kinda like a quote for anauto repair...LOL

We also have to find someone who would agree to be the petitioner in the case. Can you get a nice school zone map of New Berlin like we have of Milwaukee? If it's as restrictive or worse maybe you'd like to do it?

I live in a small town so I'm no good except for moral support.:D
 

hugh jarmis

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He said he'd give us no better than "even odds" so 50-50 chance.He said the coverage of schools in milwaukee is such that such a huge percentage of the population lives in a school zone. Milwaukee county would be a good "location" to make the case around.

He said based on Wisconsin supreme court rulings that the rkba is a 'fundamental' right, how can that right be fundamental if (say)50% of the population lives in a school zone and can't exercise that right.

We would need a plaintiff. I'm not sure if that could be me. I live in New Berlin which is in Waukesha county. I do also own property in Milwaukee county, but I'm not sure if thats as good. I'm not sure if my property in West Allis is inside a school zone or not either. It might be best to have someone thats within a school zone.

He left on vacation yesterday for a week, but I'll speak with him more when he returns. Hopefully in the meantime we might have explored some other options also and have a better idea if thats a direction we want to pursue.
 

pvtschultz

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I am within a West Allis school zone. I will unfortunately be burning through a lot of my vacation time during the next couple weeks with the birth of my second child. I would venture to guess though that if we filed suit, the majority of the arguments won't be made until next year anyways.
 
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