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Thread: Open Carry at Church day event in Valley Station, KY

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    http://thevillevoice.com/2009/06/02/...-to-church-day

    Bring Your Sidearm to Church Day
    June 2nd, 2009 by rickredding · 17 Comments

    There’s a church in Valley Station that is promoting Independence Day by encouraging its members to bring a gun to church, and to bring a friend with a gun to church. You can enter a raffle, for just a dollar, to win your very own handgun. And local gun shops are invited to come, TO CHURCH, and stand before the congregation and do a commercial about their stores.

    Now all this activity is being promoted through a mail campaign that an alert South End reader told us about. You can find details on the New Bethel Church website.

    Is anyone else out there disgusted by this?

    New Bethel Church, on Valley Station Road, is calling the June 27 event “Open Carry Celebration” in celebration of the 1st and 2nd amendments. If you go, you’re supposed to openly carry you sidearm, securely in a holster. Oh, you’re supposed to leave the ammo at home. Wonder who’s gonna be checking the guns at the door to make sure no one brings a loaded weapon?

    Last week, a doctor was shot while attending church services in Wichita. There have been church shootings throughout the country. But at New Bethel, Pastor Ken Pagano thinks it’s a good idea to encourage members to bring guns to church.

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    Mike,

    You ask: "Is anyone out there disgusted by this?"

    If you mean a church promoting an open carry Sunday, I'd have to say I'm not the least disgusted by this. If more people carried during church services, perhaps we'd see the number of shootings during church go down . . . or, at least the number of victims might diminish. Mind you, while I live in Louisville, I don't live anywhere near the church promoting this event.

    What I am somewhat baffled by, however, is the notion of promoting an open carry Sunday with empty guns. I'm not sure why they added this proviso. I would have rather had them add the proviso (if they really thought it necessary) of carrying without a round in the chamber.

    I am sure this event will soon garner the attention of our local media. Stay tuned.

    Reg

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    MgoBlue wrote:
    Mike,

    You ask: "Is anyone out there disgusted by this?"
    No, I didn't.

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    Then I must be misreading your posting, where you stated:

    =================================
    Now all this activity is being promoted through a mail campaign that an alert South End reader told us about. You can find details on the New Bethel Church website.

    Is anyone else out there disgusted by this?
    =================================

    Or, did you not write this posting? -- Oh, NEVER MIND!! I just saw this is material from the opening link to some site called the Ville Voice. Sorry for the confusion!

    Reg

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    There are two things that bother me about this:

    1) I don't believe the gun stores should be advertising their services in church.

    2) Why the empty guns? The 2nd Amendment protects the right to keep and bear arms -- loaded arms, not empty ones. Also, by everyone carrying an unloaded weapon make a enticing prospect for any criminal to rob everyone of their guns.

    So drop the unloaded guns rule, and prohibit advertising and I'm 100% for it.

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    I believe Mike was quoting someone else's article/letter. As for the gun promotion vis some church, it seems to me that a pastor/priest/rabbi/guru ought to be able to run it as he seesfit. The congregation can defect if they think it inappropriate. I certainly don't find it "disgusting" in any case.

    -ljp

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    This just makes me want to go to church. I wonder what kind of weaponthe pastor has hidden behind the pulpit, maybe an AK-47or anAR-15, or perhaps a tank.

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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    JohnKelly wrote:
    1) I don't believe the gun stores should be advertising their services in church.
    Please explain this to me. Specifically, why not?

    How else can we praise the Lord and pass the ammunition at the same time?

    I understand the reasons for separation of Church and State. And I understand the implications of those who have stood it on it's head. But I fail to see any need or reason to separate Church and Commerce... Are Bibles free?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    ixtow wrote:
    I understand the reasons for separation of Church and State. And I understand the implications of those who have stood it on it's head. But I fail to see any need or reason to separate Church and Commerce... Are Bibles free?
    Um...yes actually, bibles are free.

    Most churches will give you a bible from their stock if you ask, and almost every hotel/motelroom in the nation has a bible in it that was placed by "The Gideons" as a free service. Its not a well known practice anymore, but its actually welcome for anyone to take one of those bibles with them at no charge. The hotel/motel will simply contact the organization and ask fora replacement. You can also contact The Gideons yourself and ask for a bible free of charge, and there are a number of organizations you can look up in almost any Yellow Pages book and on the Internet that will send you one as-well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideons_International

    That being said, I don't disagree with your statement at all. Churches of all kinds have different practices, and I don't see it as odd or "disgusting" at all. Its called Freedom of Religion. Like everyone else however, I AM a bit baffled by the "unloaded" idea behind it. if your going to carry a gun, you might as well carry it loaded, or at least with the loaded magazines on your person, otherwise its a hammer, and the event isn't called"bring your hammer to church day" is it?!

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    ixtow wrote:
    JohnKelly wrote:
    1) I don't believe the gun stores should be advertising their services in church.
    Please explain this to me. Specifically, why not?

    How else can we praise the Lord and pass the ammunition at the same time?

    I understand the reasons for separation of Church and State. And I understand the implications of those who have stood it on it's head. But I fail to see any need or reason to separate Church and Commerce... Are Bibles free?
    The whole "moneychangers in the temple" thing:
    http://bible.cc/mark/11-15.htm


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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Good call! I wondered if anyone would dig that up. ;-)

    But, I think there is a difference between setting up a flea market every week in a Jewish Temple (where one might argue that the New Testament's premise may also be in play), and a one-time promotion of something that has a Biblical concept at it's root as well.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    JohnKelly wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    JohnKelly wrote:
    1) I don't believe the gun stores should be advertising their services in church.
    Please explain this to me. Specifically, why not?

    How else can we praise the Lord and pass the ammunition at the same time?

    I understand the reasons for separation of Church and State. And I understand the implications of those who have stood it on it's head. But I fail to see any need or reason to separate Church and Commerce... Are Bibles free?
    The whole "moneychangers in the temple" thing:
    http://bible.cc/mark/11-15.htm
    Not to get too far astray, but I always understood that passage as Jesus casting out the people who had started profiteering off the worshipers by hawking goods for religious ceremonies/sacrifices.

    To accurately apply such to the 'arms dealers' being given a one time opportunity to advertise their wares, there would have to be some arms component to the requisite ceremonies of the church that said arms dealers would be profiting from in the instant. Say... selling reloading components...

    "The Casing art the Vessel of My Body. It containeth the Powder of My Blood. Poureth thou My Blood therein, and seal it with the Bullet of My Flesh.....Amen."*




    *Before any hard core bible-thumpers get all up in my face about BLASPHEME, realize I am a recovering Mennonite, and I believe that God has a sense of humor*:P

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    I love the idea but one must ask, What Would Jesus Carry?


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    Great idea! Loaded and holstered handguns! Unloaded guns are for libs. You shouldn't be allowed to be in church unarmed. It used to be a fine awhile back if you didn't bring your firearm to church.... Times have changed....

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Part of why I don't go to Church anymore... Any congregation which demands firearms be left behind is clearly not in line with the God they claim to be worshiping.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    I just saw this on CNN a few hours ago. :celebrate

    (I know, I shouldn't be watching CNN.)
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    The whole gun store advertising thing, is that going to be during or after service? I have no problem with it after service but during service it could be a distraction from the service.

    The unloaded thing doesn't seem to make any sense. Hell, I might as well carry a knife or a taser if I'm going to carry an unloaded pistol. I know! I could take my AK and attach the bayonet. That way it can be unloaded and work as a spear.

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    MgoBlue wrote:
    What I am somewhat baffled by, however, is the notion of promoting an open carry Sunday with empty guns. I'm not sure why they added this proviso. I would have rather had them add the proviso (if they really thought it necessary) of carrying without a round in the chamber.
    I was wondering if it had anything to do w/ the fact that it's trying to get people who don't normally do so to open carry? People who might own firearms but not [yet] open carry because they feel 'unqualified' (for lack of a better word at the moment) to do so...

    I ask this because they're going to have talks/demos about gun safety, etc.

    So, if I'm going to meet my young cousin down at the range at my grandparents' house to teach him how to shoot, I'm might ask him to bring his gun, but to come with it unloaded. I think the same principle may be at play here.

    Maybe this is just "Step1" ("familiarity and safety") and Step2 or Step3 will involve asking/encouraging his parishoners to open carry to every church service from here on out.

    I don't like the idea of carrying neutered firearms, inherently, but I think those of us nearby and/or in KY might want to attend anyway. If for no other reason, than to maybe have a polite/civil discussion with the pastor, ascertain his true motive/rationale for this event and the neuter requirement, and maybe even educate him a little (if such an education needs to take place).

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    Carrying an unloaded paperweight = STUPID. Criminal walks into church, kills the police man, and demands everyone surrender their unloaded firearm. Now a thug has a nice gun collection.

    I suppose you could fix bayonets if disarmed by the preacher...



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