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Thread: Germantown Ordinances

  1. #1
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    Hello, I was just looking through my village's ordinances concerning firearms, and am hoping you can help clear them up. 9.03(1)(d)defines a public place as "Any privately owned building which is open to the public." but I don't see "public place" anywhere else in this section.

    If that term isn't used, then why is it defined?

    Also, What do each of the fields in 9.03(1)(d) represent? I'm guesing 9 is the chapter, section 3, subsection 1 article d? Is this correct?



    Thanks,

    Geoff


    9.02 FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS WEAPONS REGULATED.(Rep. & Recr. Ord. #16-95)

    (1)DEFINITIONS. (Am. Ord. #4-96)

    (a)Firearm . A weapon which acts by force of gunpowder.

    (b)Other Dangerous Weapon . Includes bow and arrow, crossbow, air gun, BB gun, sling shot, blow gun and other similar weapons.

    (2)RESTRICTION ON USE OF FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS WEAPONS. Firearms and other dangerous weapons shall be discharged within the Village only in compliance with the following standards:

    (a)Law enforcement personnel in the performance of their duties.

    (b)Persons who have obtained a shooting permit under subsection (3) below or a special permit under subsection (4) below. (Am. Ord. #21-08)

    (3)SHOOTING PERMIT.

    (a)Required . No person may discharge any firearms or other dangerous weapons in the Village without obtaining a shooting permit or a special permit from the Chief of Police or his designee. (Am. Ord. #21-08)

    (b)Permit Application . Applications for shooting permits may be obtained at the Police Station, shall be filed with the Police Chief, and shall include the following:

    1.A description of the property where hunting will take place, which property to consist of 5 acres or more.

    2.Proof that the applicant is the owner or tenant of said property or written consent of the owner.

    3.A valid hunting license.

    4.Each applicant shall pay a fee of $5.00 plus the cost of the criminal investigation fee as charged by the State Department of Justice. (Am. Ord. #24-97; Am. Ord. #23-98)

    5.Expiration date. All permits shall expire on August 31 of each year.

    (c)Restricted Shooting Areas . (Am. Ord. #35-95) Except as provided in subsection (6) below, no permits shall be issued for Sections 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 and Wilderness Park as located in Section 12, all being in Town 9 North, Range 20 East, in the Village.

    (d)Shooting Regulations .

    1.Firearms shall be limited to shotguns.

    2.No firearm or dangerous weapon shall be discharged within 500 feet of any building, street, road or highway.

    3.Permits shall be shown to police officers upon demand.

    (e)Grant or Denial of Permit; Appeal . The Police Chief or the Chief's designee shall review the application and grant or deny the appeal. Any person aggrieved may appeal to the Public Safety Committee within 10 days.

    (f)Revocation of Permit . The Police Chief may revoke any permit issued hereunder at any time for any violation of the provisions of this subsection.

    (4)SPECIAL PERMITS. (Am. Ord. #21-08) Special permits for the preservation of crops may be issued by the Police Chief.

    (5)LIABILITY NOT ASSUMED. The Village does not assume any liability for damages to persons or property caused by the discharge of firearms or other dangerous weapons.

    (6)PENALTY. Any person who shall violate any provision of this section shall be subject to a penalty as provided in section 25.04 of this Code.

    State law references--Weapons generally, Wis. Stats. § 941.20 et seq.; local regulation of firearms, Wis. Stats. § 66.0409.


    9.03 POSSESSION OF FIREARMS IN PUBLIC BUILDINGS PROHIBITED.(Am. Ord. #4-96)


    No person, except duly authorized city, village, county, State or Federal law enforcement officers specifically authorized by law to carry firearms, shall possess a firearm while in any public building within the Village as provided in §941.235, Wis. Stats., in any tavern within the Village as provided in §941.237, Wis. Stats., or within any school zone as provided in §948.605, Wis. Stats.

    (1)DEFINITIONS. For the purpose of this section, the following definitions apply:

    (a)Firearm . See section 9.02(1) of this chapter.

    (b)Public Building . (Am. Ord. #4-96) Any building owned by the Village, Washington County, or the Germantown School District.

    (c)Public Land . Any land owned by the Village, Washington County, or the Germantown School District.

    (d)Public Place . Any privately owned building which is open to the public.

    (2)ENFORCEMENT. A police officer finding a person possessing a firearm in violation of this section shall immediately take possession of such firearm and retain it as evidence.

    State law references--Weapons generally, Wis. Stats. § 941.20 et seq.; local regulation of firearms, Wis. Stats. § 66.0409.

    9.031 FACSIMILE FIREARMS.(Cr. Ord. #7-93)

    (1)DEFINITION. A facsimile firearm is any replica, toy, antique, starter pistol or other object which bears a reasonable resemblance to or which reasonably can be perceived as an actual operable firearm.

    (2)CARRYING AND DISPLAYING FACSIMILE FIREARMS PROHIBITED. No person, except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business, shall carry and display any facsimile firearm in such a manner as could reasonably be expected to alarm, intimidate, threaten or terrify another person.

    (3)PENALTY. Any person who shall violate subsection (2) above shall be subject to a penalty as provided in section 25.04 of this Code.

    State law reference--Facsimile firearms, Wis. Stats. § 941.2965.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Geoff wrote:
    Hello, I was just looking through my village's ordinances concerning firearms, and am hoping you can help clear them up. 9.03(1)(d)defines a public place as "Any privately owned building which is open to the public." but I don't see "public place" anywhere else in this section.

    If that term isn't used, then why is it defined?

    Also, What do each of the fields in 9.03(1)(d) represent? I'm guesing 9 is the chapter, section 3, subsection 1 article d? Is this correct?


    Thanks,

    Geoff

    I looked through the ordinances on the internet and you appear to be correct. I don't see the term used. It may have been that it was a left over from the writing process. Maybe it was going to be used but they didn't bother. Maybe the ordinance read differently before the State preemption statute was written and they had to chop it down once the statute was passed.

    In any case it looks like the ordinances fall inline with the preemption statute and are probably on the up and up.
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  3. #3
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    I was just about to write my village board members a letter asking them to lift the ban in public places. Man am I glad I reread the ordinancesbefore sending :-)



    Thanks,

    Geoff

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    localities have thelegal abilityto ban the discharge of firearms within city limits, So they are fine in that section because they are within the state law, Same goes for hunting.

    They also have it correct that they can ban firearms in government owned/leased buildings.

    But in ordinance 9.03-d and 9.03-2, that is above and beyond what they are allowed to enforce and it is alreadypreempted by state law.

    You can write one of the towns political figures and ask that the ordinance be removed since it is already unenforceable. Ask for a timely reply from them just to see what they have to say about it and when it will be officially removed.

  5. #5
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    I will certainly ask them to strike 9.03(1)(c) and (d) as they are not used in this section. What grounds do I have for asking them to strike 9.03(2)?



    Thanks,

    Geoff

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Nutczak wrote:
    But in ordinance 9.03-d and 9.03-2, that is above and beyond what they are allowed to enforce and it is alreadypreempted by state law.
    Huh?

    What are you reading Nutczak? 9.03-d just defines "public place" it's not used anywhere in the regulation as far as I can tell. And 9.03-2? Isn't that what happens when you violate the state statute?




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    Like I said in a previous forum , it's time for a "open carry" event in Washington county!

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    Last time I was in Germantown looking at all the new shops, I thought I saw a good coffee place. I'll have to check that again... Coffee shops are nice because its got no booz...

  9. #9
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    Ew, that's a good call! I'll have to look into that one.

  10. #10
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    Let me know when and where and I will join you

    Scott

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    Any of ya'll are welcome!

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    Just got back from Mills Fleet Farm (in Germantown). No problems at all. Had to talk to two people to find stuff. Nice trip, no reactions that I could see. Wish it would go like that all the time...

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    My opinion: Brass Magnet is correct. "Public place" was probably in the original draft and by oversight not removed at the final version. As the final version reads the phrase has no particular significance. 9.03(2) is perfectly correct. If a person has in fact violated the ordinance then a crime has been committed and the officer hasthe authority to take possession of the weapon. I personally think Germantown did a good job drafting the ordinance. It is obvious a lot of study was done concerning Article I section 25, s66.0409, and other relevant state firearm statutes.

  14. #14
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    I'm afraid I'll have to buy a new gun (awe shucks) so I can find an apropriate open carry holster, before I can OC. However, I'd still be glad to join everyone for some coffee.

    Geoff

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    check gander.. they seem to have gotten alot more holsters recently



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    skamp wrote:
    check gander.. they seem to have gotten alot more holsters recently

    They dont' carry any Level 2 or better retention holsters. At least not in our area. They haveplenty of concealable holsters of course.:quirky I just broke down andorderedtwo Blackhawk Serpas from Midway USA.
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I'm up for an OC event.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    I've checked all the major manufacturer's web sites and haven't come across anything for a P-95 w/ rail. If you guys have any ideas I'd be glad to hear 'em.



    Geoff

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    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
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    Geoff wrote:
    I've checked all the major manufacturer's web sites and haven't come across anything for a P-95 w/ rail. If you guys have any ideas I'd be glad to hear 'em.



    Geoff
    You might have to pick up a "universal" holster. Not the most ideal solution but your other option is to upgrade you pistol.
    The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair. Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

  20. #20
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    I'd call Blackhawk or another manufacturer of whatevertype of holster you're interested in. I've heard unconfirmed rumors that some Sig P series holsters may fit the P95. I guess they are very similar dimensionally.
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  21. #21
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    Streicher's on 124 and Hampton carries lots of retention holders.
    It's a LEO store but the will sell most stuff to anyone

  22. #22
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    I think I know what I'll be doing over lunch on Monday.... calling Blackhawk. I would be ecstatic if I could find something that fits, since I really don't have the cash for a new gun right now.



    geoff

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    I didn't know they had a retail store... I've only seen the catalog, but that is definitely worth checking out.



    Thanks,

    geoff

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    hey im in west bend anyone know any of the rules for out here

  25. #25
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    uncledrew23 wrote:
    hey im in west bend anyone know any of the rules for out here
    IANAL but looks like West Bend repealed their ordinances in 1995 like everyone else should have.

    http://www.ci.west-bend.wi.us/Munici...%20Conduct.pdf


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