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Germantown Ordinances

Geoff

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
180
Location
Ozaukee Co., Wisconsin, USA
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Hello, I was just looking through my village's ordinances concerning firearms, and am hoping you can help clear them up. 9.03(1)(d)defines a public place as "Any privately owned building which is open to the public." but I don't see "public place" anywhere else in this section.

If that term isn't used, then why is it defined?

Also, What do each of the fields in 9.03(1)(d) represent? I'm guesing 9 is the chapter, section 3, subsection 1 article d? Is this correct?



Thanks,

Geoff


9.02 FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS WEAPONS REGULATED.(Rep. & Recr. Ord. #16-95)

(1)DEFINITIONS. (Am. Ord. #4-96)

(a)Firearm . A weapon which acts by force of gunpowder.

(b)Other Dangerous Weapon . Includes bow and arrow, crossbow, air gun, BB gun, sling shot, blow gun and other similar weapons.

(2)RESTRICTION ON USE OF FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS WEAPONS. Firearms and other dangerous weapons shall be discharged within the Village only in compliance with the following standards:

(a)Law enforcement personnel in the performance of their duties.

(b)Persons who have obtained a shooting permit under subsection (3) below or a special permit under subsection (4) below. (Am. Ord. #21-08)

(3)SHOOTING PERMIT.

(a)Required . No person may discharge any firearms or other dangerous weapons in the Village without obtaining a shooting permit or a special permit from the Chief of Police or his designee. (Am. Ord. #21-08)

(b)Permit Application . Applications for shooting permits may be obtained at the Police Station, shall be filed with the Police Chief, and shall include the following:

1.A description of the property where hunting will take place, which property to consist of 5 acres or more.

2.Proof that the applicant is the owner or tenant of said property or written consent of the owner.

3.A valid hunting license.

4.Each applicant shall pay a fee of $5.00 plus the cost of the criminal investigation fee as charged by the State Department of Justice. (Am. Ord. #24-97; Am. Ord. #23-98)

5.Expiration date. All permits shall expire on August 31 of each year.

(c)Restricted Shooting Areas . (Am. Ord. #35-95) Except as provided in subsection (6) below, no permits shall be issued for Sections 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 and Wilderness Park as located in Section 12, all being in Town 9 North, Range 20 East, in the Village.

(d)Shooting Regulations .

1.Firearms shall be limited to shotguns.

2.No firearm or dangerous weapon shall be discharged within 500 feet of any building, street, road or highway.

3.Permits shall be shown to police officers upon demand.

(e)Grant or Denial of Permit; Appeal . The Police Chief or the Chief's designee shall review the application and grant or deny the appeal. Any person aggrieved may appeal to the Public Safety Committee within 10 days.

(f)Revocation of Permit . The Police Chief may revoke any permit issued hereunder at any time for any violation of the provisions of this subsection.

(4)SPECIAL PERMITS. (Am. Ord. #21-08) Special permits for the preservation of crops may be issued by the Police Chief.

(5)LIABILITY NOT ASSUMED. The Village does not assume any liability for damages to persons or property caused by the discharge of firearms or other dangerous weapons.

(6)PENALTY. Any person who shall violate any provision of this section shall be subject to a penalty as provided in section 25.04 of this Code.

State law references--Weapons generally, Wis. Stats. § 941.20 et seq.; local regulation of firearms, Wis. Stats. § 66.0409.


9.03 POSSESSION OF FIREARMS IN PUBLIC BUILDINGS PROHIBITED.(Am. Ord. #4-96)


No person, except duly authorized city, village, county, State or Federal law enforcement officers specifically authorized by law to carry firearms, shall possess a firearm while in any public building within the Village as provided in §941.235, Wis. Stats., in any tavern within the Village as provided in §941.237, Wis. Stats., or within any school zone as provided in §948.605, Wis. Stats.

(1)DEFINITIONS. For the purpose of this section, the following definitions apply:

(a)Firearm . See section 9.02(1) of this chapter.

(b)Public Building . (Am. Ord. #4-96) Any building owned by the Village, Washington County, or the Germantown School District.

(c)Public Land . Any land owned by the Village, Washington County, or the Germantown School District.

(d)Public Place . Any privately owned building which is open to the public.

(2)ENFORCEMENT. A police officer finding a person possessing a firearm in violation of this section shall immediately take possession of such firearm and retain it as evidence.

State law references--Weapons generally, Wis. Stats. § 941.20 et seq.; local regulation of firearms, Wis. Stats. § 66.0409.

9.031 FACSIMILE FIREARMS.(Cr. Ord. #7-93)

(1)DEFINITION. A facsimile firearm is any replica, toy, antique, starter pistol or other object which bears a reasonable resemblance to or which reasonably can be perceived as an actual operable firearm.

(2)CARRYING AND DISPLAYING FACSIMILE FIREARMS PROHIBITED. No person, except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business, shall carry and display any facsimile firearm in such a manner as could reasonably be expected to alarm, intimidate, threaten or terrify another person.

(3)PENALTY. Any person who shall violate subsection (2) above shall be subject to a penalty as provided in section 25.04 of this Code.

State law reference--Facsimile firearms, Wis. Stats. § 941.2965.
 

Brass Magnet

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Geoff wrote:
Hello, I was just looking through my village's ordinances concerning firearms, and am hoping you can help clear them up. 9.03(1)(d)defines a public place as "Any privately owned building which is open to the public." but I don't see "public place" anywhere else in this section.

If that term isn't used, then why is it defined?

Also, What do each of the fields in 9.03(1)(d) represent? I'm guesing 9 is the chapter, section 3, subsection 1 article d? Is this correct?


Thanks,

Geoff

I looked through the ordinances on the internet and you appear to be correct. I don't see the term used. It may have been that it was a left over from the writing process. Maybe it was going to be used but they didn't bother. Maybe the ordinance read differently before the State preemption statute was written and they had to chop it down once the statute was passed.

In any case it looks like the ordinances fall inline with the preemption statute and are probably on the up and up.
 

Geoff

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Dec 24, 2008
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180
Location
Ozaukee Co., Wisconsin, USA
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I was just about to write my village board members a letter asking them to lift the ban in public places. Man am I glad I reread the ordinancesbefore sending :)



Thanks,

Geoff
 

Nutczak

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Dec 2, 2008
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The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
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localities have thelegal abilityto ban the discharge of firearms within city limits, So they are fine in that section because they are within the state law, Same goes for hunting.

They also have it correct that they can ban firearms in government owned/leased buildings.

But in ordinance 9.03-d and 9.03-2, that is above and beyond what they are allowed to enforce and it is alreadypreempted by state law.

You can write one of the towns political figures and ask that the ordinance be removed since it is already unenforceable. Ask for a timely reply from them just to see what they have to say about it and when it will be officially removed.
 

Geoff

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Dec 24, 2008
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Location
Ozaukee Co., Wisconsin, USA
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I will certainly ask them to strike 9.03(1)(c) and (d) as they are not used in this section. What grounds do I have for asking them to strike 9.03(2)?



Thanks,

Geoff
 

Brass Magnet

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Nutczak wrote:
But in ordinance 9.03-d and 9.03-2, that is above and beyond what they are allowed to enforce and it is alreadypreempted by state law.

Huh?

What are you reading Nutczak? 9.03-d just defines "public place" it's not used anywhere in the regulation as far as I can tell. And 9.03-2? Isn't that what happens when you violate the state statute?
 

AaronS

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May 2, 2009
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1,497
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Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Last time I was in Germantown looking at all the new shops, I thought I saw a good coffee place. I'll have to check that again... Coffee shops are nice because its got no booz...
 

AaronS

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May 2, 2009
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Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Just got back from Mills Fleet Farm (in Germantown). No problems at all. Had to talk to two people to find stuff. Nice trip, no reactions that I could see. Wish it would go like that all the time...
 

Lammie

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Feb 18, 2007
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Location
, Wisconsin, USA
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My opinion: Brass Magnet is correct. "Public place" was probably in the original draft and by oversight not removed at the final version. As the final version reads the phrase has no particular significance. 9.03(2) is perfectly correct. If a person has in fact violated the ordinance then a crime has been committed and the officer hasthe authority to take possession of the weapon. I personally think Germantown did a good job drafting the ordinance. It is obvious a lot of study was done concerning Article I section 25, s66.0409, and other relevant state firearm statutes.
 

Geoff

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Dec 24, 2008
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Ozaukee Co., Wisconsin, USA
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I'm afraid I'll have to buy a new gun (awe shucks) so I can find an apropriate open carry holster, before I can OC. However, I'd still be glad to join everyone for some coffee.

Geoff
 

Brass Magnet

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skamp wrote:
check gander.. they seem to have gotten alot more holsters recently :)
They dont' carry any Level 2 or better retention holsters. At least not in our area. They haveplenty of concealable holsters of course.:quirky I just broke down andorderedtwo Blackhawk Serpas from Midway USA.
 

Geoff

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
180
Location
Ozaukee Co., Wisconsin, USA
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I've checked all the major manufacturer's web sites and haven't come across anything for a P-95 w/ rail. If you guys have any ideas I'd be glad to hear 'em.



Geoff
 

GlockMeisterG21

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Dec 17, 2008
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637
Location
Pewaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Geoff wrote:
I've checked all the major manufacturer's web sites and haven't come across anything for a P-95 w/ rail. If you guys have any ideas I'd be glad to hear 'em.



Geoff
You might have to pick up a "universal" holster. Not the most ideal solution but your other option is to upgrade you pistol.
 

Brass Magnet

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I'd call Blackhawk or another manufacturer of whatevertype of holster you're interested in. I've heard unconfirmed rumors that some Sig P series holsters may fit the P95. I guess they are very similar dimensionally.
 
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