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Thread: Wonder if we'd be so lucky...

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20...WS01/906020306

    District Attorney General Jerry Woodall says he will not file criminal charges against the Madison County sheriff's deputy whose gun was discharged in a Jackson store last week. Advertisement Click Here! Quantcast Debra A. Bond, 46, was suspended for 10 days without pay after her 3-year-old grandson reached into her purse and accidentally discharged her .40-caliber Glock handgun Wednesday evening at the Goodwill Store at 1688 S. Highland Ave. The bullet struck the ceiling, and no one was injured. In a letter sent to Sheriff David Woolfork on Friday, Woodall stated, "It is my opinion that the officer's conduct was not reckless in that she was carrying the weapon in a manner that most women would carry a weapon and that being in her purse. The actions of the child, under ... supervision of Deputy Bond, are not so foreseeable as to arise to the level of criminal negligence as defined under Tennessee law." The Sheriff's Office conducted an internal investigation after the incident and charged Bond with a violation of department policy - failing to keep firearms or other weapons and ammunition safe and secure at all times - according to a news release from the Sheriff's Office. Bond waived her right to an administrative hearing and accepted a 10-day suspension without pay, Woolfork has said. Bond was off-duty when the incident occurred, but deputies are required to carry their guns at all times, according to department policy. Bond has been employed with the Sheriff's Office since March 2008. She completed basic training at the Tennessee Law Enforcement Training Academy in August, receiving a satisfactory mark on firearms instruction and training. Visit jacksonsun.com and share your thoughts. - Mariann Martin, 425-9782

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    You know **** well we wouldn't get off so easy.

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    Wait a minute here,

    She carried a glock in a purse without having anything guarding the trigger from being depressed!! She should have taken that hit in the leg to remind her everyday for the rest of her life how stupid of a move that was.

    This is almost as good as the cop that shot himslef in the leg while playing show & tell with school-aged children.

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    Nutczak wrote:
    Wait a minute here,

    She carried a glock in a purse without having anything guarding the trigger from being depressed!!
    Couldn't it have been in a holster?

    Carrying a GLOCK with one in the pipe flopping around in a purse would be insanity... :what:



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    HankT wrote:
    Nutczak wrote:
    Wait a minute here,

    She carried a glock in a purse without having anything guarding the trigger from being depressed!!
    Couldn't it have been in a holster?

    Carrying a GLOCK with one in the pipe flopping around in a purse would be insanity... :what:

    I was thinking the same thing!

    This woman should THANK HER LUCKY STARS that her child, herself, and everyone else around escaped getting hit with that bullet! This could have been a very tragic event.

    She would not have gotten off this way had she not been a LEO.



  6. #6
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    That's ironic. I was considering carrying my Glock .40 with one in the chamber, but were looking for safe ways to do so, and posted on the OC forums to see what my options are. Right now, I carry unchambered, for this very reason.

    ( http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum62/26714.html ) for those who were wondering.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    I have a Glock 23 and use a Blackhawk Serpa retention holster. Over the past few weeks I have finally started to carry with one in the chamber. I was not comfortable doing that at first because of the lack of safety that the Glock's are known for, but I am slowly getting over it.

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    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    I have a Glock 23 and use a Blackhawk Serpa retention holster. Over the past few weeks I have finally started to carry with one in the chamber. I was not comfortable doing that at first because of the lack of safety that the Glock's are known for, but I am slowly getting over it.
    I have the same setup T vance.

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    malignity wrote:
    That's ironic. I was considering carrying my Glock .40 with one in the chamber, but were looking for safe ways to do so, and posted on the OC forums to see what my options are. Right now, I carry unchambered, for this very reason.

    ( http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum62/26714.html ) for those who were wondering.
    I've carried chambered since I've been carrying. Of course I'd already put a few thousand rounds down range with the weapon before I started carrying, and I'd been carrying around the house for some time. Glocks are safe weapons for someone who has a good foundation in firearms safety. Lots of people like to blame the lack of an external safety for ND's, rather than their failure to adhere to the four rules (mainly poor trigger finger discipline). I was in a gun store when a custome was asking about the Glocks lack of a external safety. I told him, "Just so you'll know, the gun is supposed to go off when you pull the trigger." He thought that was pretty funny, but also realized the meaning of the statement. If the gun is properly holstered, it won't matter if it's chambered or not. I find the main reason that people don't carry chambered is lack of self conficence that it usually overcome as the user gets more familiar with their weapon. OTOH, some people do have other reasons for not chambering a round (like small children crawling all over them).

    If the four rules fail you, then it's probably a malfunctioning gun, and that isn't restricted to Glocks.


    That said. You have to be comfortable and confident with your carry choice. If that means going unchambered, then it's your choice to make, and don't let anyone get you down for making it.

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    malignity wrote:
    That's ironic. I was considering carrying my Glock .40 with one in the chamber, but were looking for safe ways to do so, and posted on the OC forums to see what my options are. Right now, I carry unchambered, for this very reason.

    ( http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum62/26714.html ) for those who were wondering.
    This is the one of the primary reasons I went with a Smith & Wesson M&P with the magazine disconnect. I'm nearly always chambered... when I want to add that extra element of safety, I just slide the mag out about a half inch (or remove it completely). Obviously this is not advisable if you are carrying, as the mag can jiggle loose and fall. It's something I do when I'm not wearing my weapon... and even then, it's nearly always in the holster.

    Whenever I'm storing my weapon in a bag, briefcase, backpack, etc, I leave one in the pipe and completely remove the magazine. This is common at the gym because they don't allow visible firearms on the premises so I have to be very aware of my surroundings and the sounds my weapon makes when I'm arming or disarming. The distinctive sound of pulling the slide back to chamber, or unchamber, a round would probably perk some ears; whereas simply sliding the magazine in or out of the well doesn't make much noise at all. The added benefit is that I don't have to unholster the weapon in order to make it inoperable.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Most important rule..... keep the booger hook of da bangswitch!!! Also see addendum.. Keep the following off the bangsitch as well pens, pencils, keys, small children, snakes, lizards, lipsticks, chapsticks, rolls of pennies or dimes and toes!! Also always carry in a holster or container that shields the trigger!!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    I have a Glock 23
    Aha! That's why you got stopped. Get a grown-up gun and the police will leave you alone :P

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Ė Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Most important rule..... keep the booger hook of da bangswitch!!! Also see addendum.. Keep the following off the bangsitch as well pens, pencils, keys, small children, snakes, lizards, lipsticks, chapsticks, rolls of pennies or dimes and toes!! Also always carry in a holster or container that shields the trigger!!


  14. #14
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    FatboyCykes wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    Most important rule..... keep the booger hook of da bangswitch!!! Also see addendum.. Keep the following off the bangsitch as well pens, pencils, keys, small children, snakes, lizards, lipsticks, chapsticks, rolls of pennies or dimes and toes!! Also always carry in a holster or container that shields the trigger!!
    Epic post.

    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    Well, first of all, you should be VERY familiar with your firearm and the safety rules that apply to ALL firearms before you carry. As for carrying unchambered, I wouldn't every do it. Hopefully those of you that do, practice (unloaded, with snapcaps, etc..) drawing and chambering a round. That can cost very important seconds.

    I used to be a bit nervous about the lack of an "external" safety, but quickly realized the gun won't go off without the trigger being pulled. I carry an XD, so it has a grip safety, but it's the same idea, there's no lever to flip, and if there were I wouldn't rely on it anyway. Safety's fail.

    As for this lady, I don't care how she chooses to carry her firearm, but she should pay more attention to where she sets it down, and what her grandkids are doing around her purse with a loaded Glock in it.

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    I guess I should clarify my statement so I do not offend Glock Owners.

    I am not ripping on Glocks at all, I was just ripping on the woman that had one floating aroundunholstered in her purse with nothing guarding the trigger from being depressed.
    I have nothing against Glock pistols. Their design and safety system works as it should. But this leads them toneeding a properly designedholster to guard against the trigger being depressed inadvertently.

    I own an XD-m, It has the same style trigger safety, and a beavertail safety too.and still no thumb-safety, it is nearly as point-shoot as a Glock and it could easily be negligently fired if not kept in a holster to guard prying little handsor a tube of chapstick causing an N-D in a purse.

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    Nutczak wrote:
    I guess I should clarify my statement so I do not offend Glock Owners.

    I am not ripping on Glocks at all, I was just ripping on the woman that had one floating around¬*unholstered in her purse with nothing guarding the trigger from being depressed.
    I have nothing against Glock pistols. Their design and safety system works as it should. But this leads them to¬*needing a properly designed¬*holster to guard against the trigger being depressed inadvertently.

    I own an XD-m, It has the same style trigger safety, and a beavertail safety too.¬*and still no thumb-safety, it is nearly as point-shoot as a Glock and it could easily be negligently fired if not kept in a holster to guard prying little hands¬*or a tube of chapstick causing an N-D in a purse.
    You're right. As far as I know, we don't know if it was in a holster or not. The child may have pulled it out of a holster, or squeezed his hand into a nylon holster, or who knows what else. I see this as more of a case of neglect for the child than the gun. She should have known where both were and what both were doing.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    If you like carrying floating around in something other than a holster they do make a trigger block that can be pushed out with the finger when you are ready to fire!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    This is in reply to FatboyCykes' clipart. While one officer is securing a suspect, a second officer is providing cover with her weapon. Unfortunately for the suspect, she's got her finger on the trigger. Luckily, she missed:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoNLgZul2CE


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    Another example of an officer mishandling her weapon and a good reminder to secure your firearm. This was in the Public Safety section of the Farmington Observer yesterday, June 4, 2009. I couldn't find it online, so I'm typing it out:


    Quote:

    A Michigan State Police ID badge and a handgun were stolen from an unlocked vehicle while parked on the 29000 block of Minglewood Lane during the night of May 31. The rear windows were reportedly left down and the vehicle was not locked when someone ransacked the car and took a purse from the driver's seat floor.

    End quote.


    Note the MSP officer left her gun in an unlocked car with the windows down. WTF?


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    CoonDog wrote:
    Another example of an officer mishandling her weapon and a good reminder to secure your firearm. This was in the Public Safety section of the Farmington Observer yesterday, June 4, 2009. I couldn't find it online, so I'm typing it out:


    Quote:

    A Michigan State Police ID badge and a handgun were stolen from an unlocked vehicle while parked on the 29000 block of Minglewood Lane during the night of May 31. The rear windows were reportedly left down and the vehicle was not locked when someone ransacked the car and took a purse from the driver's seat floor.

    End quote.


    Note the MSP officer left her gun in an unlocked car with the windows down. WTF?
    I don't even like to keep my gun in a LOCKED car when I'm not there with it. I learned this from an officer buddy of mine... he never kept his weapon locked in his vehicle because of the slight chance of a break in or auto theft.

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    SQLtables wrote:
    Nutczak wrote:
    I guess I should clarify my statement so I do not offend Glock Owners.

    I am not ripping on Glocks at all, I was just ripping on the woman that had one floating aroundunholstered in her purse with nothing guarding the trigger from being depressed.
    I have nothing against Glock pistols. Their design and safety system works as it should. But this leads them toneeding a properly designedholster to guard against the trigger being depressed inadvertently.

    I own an XD-m, It has the same style trigger safety, and a beavertail safety too.and still no thumb-safety, it is nearly as point-shoot as a Glock and it could easily be negligently fired if not kept in a holster to guard prying little handsor a tube of chapstick causing an N-D in a purse.
    You're right. As far as I know, we don't know if it was in a holster or not. The child may have pulled it out of a holster, or squeezed his hand into a nylon holster, or who knows what else. I see this as more of a case of neglect for the child than the gun. She should have known where both were and what both were doing.
    yes. my husband has a glock 21, he carries chambered. we have never had an "accidental misfire" or anything of the sort. we have small children in our house all the time, even when he has it on his side, the kids who are in our house all know to never touch his gun, and if they see a gun anywhere to not touch it and to tell an adult.

    the woman definitely should have been aware of both her weapon and especially her child.

    even though i keep my S&W .38sp in a holster in my purse, if any of the kids i watch or am around want something from my purse (gum, sucker, whatever) I get it for them, they know not to put their hands in my purse BECAUSE my gun is in there and it is loaded.

    i would think a mother who's job it is to carry a loaded weapon would have this kind of instruction with her child, and since kids at 3-4 yrs old don't always listen, i would think she would have there wherewithall to watch her purse and her child more carefully.

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    stephgrinage23 wrote:
    yes. my husband has a glock 21, he carries chambered. we have never had an "accidental misfire" or anything of the sort. we have small children in our house all the time, even when he has it on his side, the kids who are in our house all know to never touch his gun, and if they see a gun anywhere to not touch it and to tell an adult.

    the woman definitely should have been aware of both her weapon and especially her child.¬*

    even though i keep my S&W .38sp in¬* a holster in my purse, if any of the kids i watch or am around want something from my purse (gum, sucker, whatever)¬* I get it for them, they know not to put their hands in my purse BECAUSE my gun is in there and it is loaded.

    i would think a mother who's job it is to carry a loaded weapon would have this kind of instruction with her child, and since kids at 3-4 yrs old don't always listen, i would think she would have there wherewithall to watch her purse and her child more carefully.
    Yea, Christy often carries one of my small guns in her purse, and she always keeps it up when she's not carrying it. Our 4 year old pretty well knows, but we often have my nieces and nephews over who are a lot younger.

    Also, her purse has a built in holster and the holster has a locking zipper.. kinda neat and strong enough to keep a kid out, but not very practical for drawing the gun while she's out and about.

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    Bronson wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    I have a Glock 23
    Aha! That's why you got stopped. Get a grown-up gun and the police will leave you alone :P

    Bronson
    Yeah they didn't seem to like my .40 cal, or the fact that I had 13 rounds, or the fact that I had hollow points....

    What kind of fancy piece do you pack Bronson?

  25. #25
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    SQLtables wrote:
    stephgrinage23 wrote:
    yes. my husband has a glock 21, he carries chambered. we have never had an "accidental misfire" or anything of the sort. we have small children in our house all the time, even when he has it on his side, the kids who are in our house all know to never touch his gun, and if they see a gun anywhere to not touch it and to tell an adult.

    the woman definitely should have been aware of both her weapon and especially her child.

    even though i keep my S&W .38sp in a holster in my purse, if any of the kids i watch or am around want something from my purse (gum, sucker, whatever) I get it for them, they know not to put their hands in my purse BECAUSE my gun is in there and it is loaded.

    i would think a mother who's job it is to carry a loaded weapon would have this kind of instruction with her child, and since kids at 3-4 yrs old don't always listen, i would think she would have there wherewithall to watch her purse and her child more carefully.
    Yea, Christy often carries one of my small guns in her purse, and she always keeps it up when she's not carrying it. Our 4 year old pretty well knows, but we often have my nieces and nephews over who are a lot younger.

    Also, her purse has a built in holster and the holster has a locking zipper.. kinda neat and strong enough to keep a kid out, but not very practical for drawing the gun while she's out and about.
    Now there's a purse I wouldn't mind buying for Jessica. Where do you get one of those? Currently she has an IWB holster but she prefers to carry in her purse.


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