Man charged with threat against Obama in Utah

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On May 27, the complaint states, Murray came back to withdraw $12,698 from his savings account. He did not have proper identification and was told he needed it to complete the transaction. He allegedly said, "Not to be disrespectful, but if I don't get this money, someone is going to die."

Why wasn't there aleady a criminal complaint against him for this, apart from the question of threatening the president? Not only did he get his money, sans ID, but was welcomed back the next day, at which time he mentioned his "mission" in the courseof making another withdrawal. Only then did the teller identify a possible problem, apparently.

-ljp

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If the man said what he is alleged to have said, or even most of it I agree with HankT that he is a goof.

Could they maybe have gone ahead and charged him because it gives them some increased ability legally to do things to find him? Any LEOs or attys that can answer that?

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1.] Hear say .

2.] Whereare the photographs of him from friends, family , career...

3.] Where are their statenents

4.] Where are the medical records

5.] What is the purpose of story without any facts

PRELOG : none story without follow up

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ntrngr wrote:

HankT wrote:

Shouldn't be too hard to find a blue 2001 Buick LeSabre with New York plates, so this should get resolved rather quickly."

"I've got a hunch that ole Daniel James Murraywill provide some entertaining quotes for us all.

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Uh, the man has $85,000 dollars in his pocket. If he's smart enough to manage to save $85k I bet he's smart enough to GET ANOTHER VEHICLE.

...I have a hunch that you are correct!

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Well, they've located Mr. Goof.

I can hardly wait for the quotes of his wisdom!

Feds Arrest Man on 'Mission to Kill the President'
Feds Nab Threat Suspect Daniel David Murray at Nevada Casino
By JACK DATE and PIERRE THOMAS
June 6, 2009


A man being sought by the Secret Service for theats against the president has been arrested.

Daniel James Murray was arrested at a casino in Laughlin, Nev., Friday without incident by federal and local authorities....

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7772961&page=1

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What is it with fugitives going to casinos? McCoy, the "highway sniper" here in Ohio was found in Vegas. hmmm...

-ljp

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Legba wrote:

On May 27, the complaint states, Murray came back to withdraw $12,698 from his savings account. He did not have proper identification and was told he needed it to complete the transaction. He allegedly said, "Not to be disrespectful, but if I don't get this money, someone is going to die."

Why wasn't there aleady a criminal complaint against him for this, apart from the question of threatening the president? Not only did he get his money, sans ID, but was welcomed back the next day, at which time he mentioned his "mission" in the courseof making another withdrawal. Only then did the teller identify a possible problem, apparently.

Click to expand...

One possible reason is that, generally, service companies are very customer-oriented and mostly averse to challenging customers--even when they say goofy stuff. It's better to slough it off and do business another day. Of course, that's not always true.



This Murray incident made me think of a little thought experiment. Here it is.

You (anyone here at OCDO) is the teller or service rep at a medium sized bank in your town. A 47 year old customer who opened an account at your bank two weeks ago comes in and wants to withdraw $12, 698 in cash.



You: Good morning, sir. How are you today?

Murray: Fine, fine, look I wanna get some cash

You: Yes, sir. Right away, sir. Your account number?

Murray: 87621356-5

You: Thank you, let me access that. [Typing] And your name, sir?

Murray: Daniel James Murray

You: Thank you. How much would you like to withdraw?

Murray: $12, 698. And hurry up.

You: Right away sir. We can print up a check for that amount right away. May I see your identification, please?

Murray: I want it in cash, not a check.

You: That's not a problem, sir. Cash it is. But may I please see your ID? For security of your account.

Murray: Well, I don't have my ID with me.

You: I'm sorry, sir. A transaction of this nature requires positive identification of the customer.

Murray: I WANT my money!

You: Sir, surely you must understand that we must be certain about the identity of the person taking such a large sum of cash out of an account?

Murray: I WANT my money!

You: I'm afraid that we cannot complete this transaction, sir. Would you be able to retrieve your ID and come back? We would be happy to complete your transaction then.

Murray: I don't wanna come back. I want my money. NOW! I've come thousands of miles to get here.

You: I'm sorry, sir. Is there anything else I can help you with?

Murray: Listen here. Not to be disrespectful, but if I don't getthis money--someone is going to die.

You: _______________insert your reply here _____________________________

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My reply at that point might be "tell it to the large-frame 9 until the police show up to handle this specific complaint." Banks never seem to have any reservations about telling me to bugger off. Then again, I'm not in the habit of threatening them. Still, I don't think I'll be taking lessons on dispute resolution from this guy.

-ljp

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What would your response be, HankT?


My response would be: I'll get that for you sir if you will wait a few minutes. I have to get my manager to get it from the vault as we don't keep such sums in the drawers. I'll be right back.

And then I would hope that my manager has the good sense to call the cops as we take our sweet time getting the money together so that when someone who just made a deadly threat against me walks into the hands of the authorities as he leaves the bank.

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Daniel James Murray ran through his neiborhood wearing a cape although he did have over due Jodie Foster DVDs with him .

The FBI have him in custody . All is well .

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Alls well that ends well. Remember, if this nutbar had succeeded he would have been responsible for - choke, gag, hack - PRESIDENT BIDEN :shock:

Imagine that, the Dan Quayle of the Left in the Oval Office. :what:

We ought to start a fund to buy TUMS for the SS. God knows this is the toughest job they have ever handled. And they had better do it well. Joe Biden couldn't be President of the Funny Company (if you arent that old look up the 1960s kids program in Wikipedia).

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Alexcabbie wrote:

Alls well that ends well. Remember, if this nutbar had succeeded he would have been responsible for - choke, gag, hack - PRESIDENT BIDEN :shock:

Imagine that, the Dan Quayle of the Left in the Oval Office. :what:

We ought to start a fund to buy TUMS for the SS. God knows this is the toughest job they have ever handled. And they had better do it well. Joe Biden couldn't be President of the Funny Company (if you arent that old look up the 1960s kids program in Wikipedia).

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+1
I don't think this idiot was probably that big a threat to the president but it seems like he really needed somebody to throw a net over him.

And yes, every time I hear Biden speak I am convinced that the SS absolutely has to protect Obama at all costs.

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Thundar wrote:

Wow. New York shares its' gun registration information with the feds. I wonder if the feds had to ask, or if all NY info is already in an FBI database.

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Either way, you can be sure there is a rubber stamp involved.

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Legba wrote:

On May 27, the complaint states, Murray came back to withdraw $12,698 from his savings account. He did not have proper identification and was told he needed it to complete the transaction. He allegedly said, "Not to be disrespectful, but if I don't get this money, someone is going to die."

Why wasn't there aleady a criminal complaint against him for this, apart from the question of threatening the president? Not only did he get his money, sans ID, but was welcomed back the next day, at which time he mentioned his "mission" in the courseof making another withdrawal. Only then did the teller identify a possible problem, apparently.

-ljp

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This comes second-hand. Even real wackos have sense to know they can't say stuff like that in a bank... I have to wonder if he pissed off an employee who just made it up...

I can make a complaint report that says anything about anyone... It's not grounds to come arrest someone. People make up crap about people they have a beef with all the time. It's called hearsay, and it doesn't constitute probable cause or reasonable suspicion: for damn good reason.

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ixtow wrote:

Legba wrote:

On May 27, the complaint states, Murray came back to withdraw $12,698 from his savings account. He did not have proper identification and was told he needed it to complete the transaction. He allegedly said, "Not to be disrespectful, but if I don't get this money, someone is going to die."

Why wasn't there aleady a criminal complaint against him for this, apart from the question of threatening the president? Not only did he get his money, sans ID, but was welcomed back the next day, at which time he mentioned his "mission" in the courseof making another withdrawal. Only then did the teller identify a possible problem, apparently.

-ljp

Click to expand...

This comes second-hand. Even real wackos have sense to know they can't say stuff like that in a bank... I have to wonder if he pissed off an employee who just made it up...

I can make a complaint report that says anything about anyone... It's not grounds to come arrest someone. People make up crap about people they have a beef with all the time. It's called hearsay, and it doesn't constitute probable cause or reasonable suspicion: for damn good reason.

Click to expand...

So, what do you think is the probability that the bank employee(s) made it up?

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HankT wrote:

ixtow wrote:

Legba wrote:

On May 27, the complaint states, Murray came back to withdraw $12,698 from his savings account. He did not have proper identification and was told he needed it to complete the transaction. He allegedly said, "Not to be disrespectful, but if I don't get this money, someone is going to die."

Why wasn't there aleady a criminal complaint against him for this, apart from the question of threatening the president? Not only did he get his money, sans ID, but was welcomed back the next day, at which time he mentioned his "mission" in the courseof making another withdrawal. Only then did the teller identify a possible problem, apparently.

-ljp

Click to expand...

This comes second-hand. Even real wackos have sense to know they can't say stuff like that in a bank... I have to wonder if he pissed off an employee who just made it up...

I can make a complaint report that says anything about anyone... It's not grounds to come arrest someone. People make up crap about people they have a beef with all the time. It's called hearsay, and it doesn't constitute probable cause or reasonable suspicion: for damn good reason.

Click to expand...

So, what do you think is the probability that the bank employee(s) made it up?

Click to expand...

Irrelevant and unknown.

What matters is that it lacks cause for arrest.

Do you even read the post?

What does the T stand for, anyway? Or shall I chose my own word?

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ixtow wrote:

HankT wrote:

ixtow wrote:

Legba wrote:

On May 27, the complaint states, Murray came back to withdraw $12,698 from his savings account. He did not have proper identification and was told he needed it to complete the transaction. He allegedly said, "Not to be disrespectful, but if I don't get this money, someone is going to die."

Why wasn't there aleady a criminal complaint against him for this, apart from the question of threatening the president? Not only did he get his money, sans ID, but was welcomed back the next day, at which time he mentioned his "mission" in the courseof making another withdrawal. Only then did the teller identify a possible problem, apparently.

-ljp

Click to expand...

This comes second-hand. Even real wackos have sense to know they can't say stuff like that in a bank... I have to wonder if he pissed off an employee who just made it up...

I can make a complaint report that says anything about anyone... It's not grounds to come arrest someone. People make up crap about people they have a beef with all the time. It's called hearsay, and it doesn't constitute probable cause or reasonable suspicion: for damn good reason.

Click to expand...

So, what do you think is the probability that the bank employee(s) made it up?

Click to expand...

Irrelevant and unknown.

What matters is that it lacks cause for arrest.

Do you even read the post?

What does the T stand for, anyway? Or shall I chose my own word?

Click to expand...

There are is a discussible issue:

1. Was the evidence obtained by SSsufficient to charge

That issue does matter. And it is a matter of law.Wewill find out the answer soon. We'll put you down forit being insufficient.We'llsee how good your legal chops are.

But you brought up another issue:

2. "I have to wonder if he pissed off an employee who just made it up... People make up crap about people they have a beef with all the time..."

This is YOUR issue. YOU brought it up. And it can stand seperate from Issue No. 1.

So, uhm, care to support YOUR issue? What do YOU think is the probability that the bank employee(s) made it up?

Got anything?

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HankT wrote:

ixtow wrote:

HankT wrote:

ixtow wrote:

Legba wrote:

On May 27, the complaint states, Murray came back to withdraw $12,698 from his savings account. He did not have proper identification and was told he needed it to complete the transaction. He allegedly said, "Not to be disrespectful, but if I don't get this money, someone is going to die."

Why wasn't there aleady a criminal complaint against him for this, apart from the question of threatening the president? Not only did he get his money, sans ID, but was welcomed back the next day, at which time he mentioned his "mission" in the courseof making another withdrawal. Only then did the teller identify a possible problem, apparently.

-ljp

Click to expand...

This comes second-hand. Even real wackos have sense to know they can't say stuff like that in a bank... I have to wonder if he pissed off an employee who just made it up...

I can make a complaint report that says anything about anyone... It's not grounds to come arrest someone. People make up crap about people they have a beef with all the time. It's called hearsay, and it doesn't constitute probable cause or reasonable suspicion: for damn good reason.

Click to expand...

So, what do you think is the probability that the bank employee(s) made it up?

Click to expand...

Irrelevant and unknown.

What matters is that it lacks cause for arrest.

Do you even read the post?

What does the T stand for, anyway? Or shall I chose my own word?

Click to expand...

There are is a discussible issue:

1. Was the evidence obtained by SSsufficient to charge

That issue does matter. And it is a matter of law.Wewill find out the answer soon. We'll put you down forit being insufficient.We'llsee how good your legal chops are.

But you brought up another issue:

2. "I have to wonder if he pissed off an employee who just made it up... People make up crap about people they have a beef with all the time..."

This is YOUR issue. YOU brought it up. And it can stand seperate from Issue No. 1.

So, uhm, care to support YOUR issue? What do YOU think is the probability that the bank employee(s) made it up?

Got anything?

Click to expand...

1) The FEDs take any word spoken by anyone, ever, as 'evidence' to go kicking down doors when local LE knows better. What would never come close to 'evidence' for City/County (unless you're a BIG one like Miami-Dade, NY City, etc), is often used and gotten away with by FEDeral 'authorities.' Anyone with access to public records (that means you), can search how this is handled. There are dozens of reports of people saying "He said he was going to kill the president!" that go completely ignored that have no more or less 'evidence' associated than this does. Owning guns is not a crime, and is no more or less an 'additional factor' than owning a car or having two arms and two legs. That is all we know. The Feds don't seem to play by the same PC and RAS rules that the locals do.

2) My issue? I said "I have to wonder if..." Hence, the statement itself is admitted to be unsupported. THAT'S THE WHOLE PREMISE OF THE POINT I WAS MAKING. I was displaying the reason why commentary of the sort does not, and rightfully so, qualify as RAS or PC. Anybody can say anything about anybody. I just did! I can make a 'report' that the banker is a liar. Does it become true jsut becasue a Cop wrote it down? No, but it becomes an excuse to kick down someone's door or arrest someone? Only if you're a FED.

What should concern you is, why do the FEDs get away with using any 'tip,' whisper, or lie, when locals have to obey things like the 4th Amendment. Why doesn't it apply to the FEDs?

It's so fun to watch you trump up things and try to act like 'you got me' or something... Way to go MonkT! Your vendetta blinds you to the actual topic and the useful thoughts and ideas you might otherwise be pondering...

HankFail.

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Sounds to me like the Feds should have just issued an APB and a "material witness" warrant for openers. However has anyone thought of the fact that banks are wired fr video and a "lip read" may have verified what the banker alleged?? In fact some banks are wired for sound, too. There are a few reasons why (if this is the case) it was not mentioned in or to the press; chief among them (A) certain bank security features need to be kept under wraps and (B) revealing sources of evidence could compromise the case or investigaton.

It is damn important that the SS do their job well, and it is so damned ironic that the WORST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY has to be protected so thoroughly, because the consequenses of somethng happening to him (short of impeachment) would be worse than what we have now.

But really arguing about "probable cause" is pointless unless you have access to the arrest warrant affadavit and the charging documents. Without seeing these, argument is just battling points of speculation Sounds to me as though Mister Nutty Remarks will at least get a much-needed checkup from the neck up.

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[spoken like James Bond]

Turd. Polished Turd...

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Alexcabbie wrote:

It is damn important that the SS do their job well, and it is so damned ironic that the WORST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY has to be protected so thoroughly, because the consequenses of somethng happening to him (short of impeachment) would be worse than what we have now.

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I'm not sure Biden would be worse. Think about it, do you really think that Biden is intelligent enough to pull off the crap that O'Bummer is doing?

Edit: spelling