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Thread: Government List of Gun Owners

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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090605/...s_obama_threat



    SALT LAKE CITY – Federal prosecutors have charged a man with making threats against President Barack Obama after he allegedly told a bank employee in Utah he was on a mission to kill the president.

    The Salt Lake Tribune reported on its Web site Thursday that Daniel James Murray allegedly made the remark to a teller at a bank in St. George on May 27 as he withdrew $13,000 from an account.

    Murray's whereabouts are unknown. A court affidavit says Murray is from New York and has recently been in California, Utah, Georgia, Oklahoma and possibly Texas.

    The U.S. Secret Service says Murray has at least eight registered firearms, the Tribune reported.

    Malcolm Wiley, a spokesman for the Secret Service in Washington, told The Associated Press he had no comment Thursday.

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    buster81 wrote: Hey buster...Thanks...I didn't mean to post it twice.

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    Shawn wrote:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090605/...s_obama_threat



    SALT LAKE CITY – Federal prosecutors have charged a man with making threats against President Barack Obama after he allegedly told a bank employee in Utah he was on a mission to kill the president.

    The Salt Lake Tribune reported on its Web site Thursday that Daniel James Murray allegedly made the remark to a teller at a bank in St. George on May 27 as he withdrew $13,000 from an account.

    Murray's whereabouts are unknown. A court affidavit says Murray is from New York and has recently been in California, Utah, Georgia, Oklahoma and possibly Texas.

    The U.S. Secret Service says Murray has at least eight registered firearms, the Tribune reported.

    Malcolm Wiley, a spokesman for the Secret Service in Washington, told The Associated Press he had no comment Thursday.
    Does the state of Utah require gun registration, or is this justmoreB.S. reporting by the uninformed?
    Peace through superior firepower

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    Flintlock wrote:
    Shawn wrote:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090605/...s_obama_threat



    SALT LAKE CITY – Federal prosecutors have charged a man with making threats against President Barack Obama after he allegedly told a bank employee in Utah he was on a mission to kill the president.

    The Salt Lake Tribune reported on its Web site Thursday that Daniel James Murray allegedly made the remark to a teller at a bank in St. George on May 27 as he withdrew $13,000 from an account.

    Murray's whereabouts are unknown. A court affidavit says Murray is from New York and has recently been in California, Utah, Georgia, Oklahoma and possibly Texas.

    The U.S. Secret Service says Murray has at least eight registered firearms, the Tribune reported.

    Malcolm Wiley, a spokesman for the Secret Service in Washington, told The Associated Press he had no comment Thursday.
    Does the state of Utah require gun registration, or is this justmoreB.S. reporting by the uninformed?
    The report says he from NY and I believe that state has firearms registration. We don't in Tn.

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    Does anyone REALLY believe the feds don't retain records of gun sales?

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    Flintlock wrote:
    Does the state of Utah require gun registration, or is this justmoreB.S. reporting by the uninformed?
    No, Utah knows better than that. The guy is from New York, but was in Utah when reported to the Feds.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Thank GoODness for the Rights of the individual sovereign States!

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    old dog wrote:
    Does anyone REALLY believe the feds don't retain records of gun sales?
    the only people who don't realize/believe/know/understand that the Feds keep forever the records of gun sales are fools. head in the sand, reality denying, fools.

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    old dog wrote:
    Does anyone REALLY believe the feds don't retain records of gun sales?
    If I remember right, 4473's must be kept at a store until it goes out of business. At the point when it does, it must turn the records over to the ATF. It has been this way for decades as far as I know.

    The thing is though, obviously as the years go by, guns will get bought and sold, or lost or stolen, and the 4473's become obviously less valuable for any purpose, legit or otherwise, because they are a far cry from an effective registration system. It's little more than garbage bureaucracy.
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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    If I remember right, 4473's must be kept at a store until it goes out of business. At the point when it does, it must turn the records over to the ATF. It has been this way for decades as far as I know.
    I had a former, tin-foil hat wearingco-worker tell me an interesting story once.

    Back in the mid 90's, my co-worker had a friend that operated a business where among other things, he sold firearms.

    As any good licensed dealer would, he kept the 4473's in storage just in case he ever closed up shop.

    Shortly before going out of business, he lost the 4473's in a "freak storage shed fire". :?

    I doubt the story was true, but it sounded neat to a teenager at the time!
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Yes, 4473s have to be maintained at the business for not less than 20 years, and probably as long as the business is open. When a gun business closes or loses its license, the records are sent to ATF.

    The forms are considered government property even while the business is running. I had ATF request/demand someone's forms and I offered to make them copies. They said that we needed to keep copies for our records but that the original forms were theirs to take as needed for evidence. We've had maybe two such requests for forms out of a couple thousand transactions, so they don't have the means to check up on all these records generally, but we do have to make them available on request,pursuant to law enforcement activities.

    I hate to think what would happen if such records were destroyed in a fire, say. It would not be well received by The Man in any case. We're not allowed to have fires, I guess.

    -ljp


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    20 years? Then all of the 4473's forgunsI aquired in CA, MD, FL, DE& VAare history... Some of the shops are long out of business as well. AZ has no 'registration'. This guy's an obvious loon.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    20 years? Then all of the 4473's forgunsI aquired in CA, MD, FL, DE& VAare history... Some of the shops are long out of business as well. AZ has no 'registration'. This guy's an obvious loon.
    So you believe that they don't keep the records... the form you fill out every time you purchase a weapon... the form that they put the gun's serial number down on... you believe they just trash it when you leave?

    The ATF keeps all that stuff. They get rid of nothing. I'm betting they have people doing data entry 24/7 building a secret database of gun owners... they've been wire tapping us for years without warrants... what makes you think this would escape their notice? The CIA and FBI have been doing unscrupulous things inside and outside the US for decades. The only loon is one who thinks our government isn't becoming tyrannical.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Wow... If they have all that info, I guess I own a lot of .45's!
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Wow... If they have all that info, I guess I own a lot of .45's!
    yeah, and just think, they might even trump up charges that you're a gun dealer operating without a license and try and jail you... you never know with these people.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I currently "own" 3 of them. I've bought and sold a dozen or so since I started shooting competitively in 1986. I've moved many times since then and most of those sales and purchases didn't involve a bill of sale. I had a couple of them "built" for me and I don't recall a bill of sale for any of those, either. Just cash, a handshake and a gurantee of 2" or smaller group at the 50 yard line...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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