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Thread: Tom's Donuts, Angla, Indiana

  1. #1
    Regular Member
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    Dec 2007
    Franklin Township, DeKalb County, Indiana, USA

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    I'd spent a couple hours enjoying coffee, cigarettes & conversation with a good friend in Tom's Donuts in Angola, Indiana. I'd been open carrying all over Angola for more than a year and Tom's Donuts was one of my favorite places to sit & visit.

    As usual, I was openly wearing my Smith & Wesson Model of 1917 in an Uncle Mike's verticle shoulder holster. At about 16:00, my friend & I decided to leave & we walked out the door. We'd been sitting in a booth and I'd noticed an older man sitting at the counter who had been staring at me with a sour expression.

    Friend and I exited the building and were standing by my automobile when an Angola Police Dept. vehicle pulled into the parking lot. I told my friend not to leave as I had a suspicion the policeman was there on account of me. Friend told me he had no intention of leaving.

    Policeman 1 walked past us and looked at me and said,"How ya doing?" I replied,"Howdy," and Policeman 1 went inside. Friend and I waited. In a couple minutes, Policeman 1 came outside and said,"Sir, do you have a permit for that?" I replied,"Yes I do. Would you like to see it?"

    Policeman 1: Yes, if I may.

    I got my wallet and removed my LTCH and handed it to him. While he was looking at it, Policeman No. 2 arrived in another prowl car and approached us with a smile on his face.

    Policeman 2: That permit is for concealed carry.

    Me: Oh no, Sir. An Indiana LTCH is just that, a license to carry handgun. There is no stipulation or requirement for concealed carry and I carry it however I want.

    Policeman 1: Sir, do you have a middle name? (My first name is just an initial and I have no middle name.)

    Me: No, Sir. Would you like to see my drivers license to go along with that?

    Policeman 1: Yes, please.

    I retrieved my wallet again and got out my drivers license and handed it to him.

    Policeman 1 to Policeman 2: He's right. There's no requirement for concealed carry.

    Policeman 1: Sir, I have to get you for trespass.

    Me: Oh no, Sir. They have no signage on the door. I've been open carrying in there for more than a year. I pay for my coffee and donuts and tip nicely. Nobody in there has ever said anything to me about open carrying. If they'd have just told me they didn't want me to open carry in there, I would have honored their request.

    Friend: That's right. We've been going in there like this for more than a year and have never had any problems or complaints.

    Policeman 1: Sorry to have bothered you (as he handed back my LTCH and drivers license).

    Me: I take no offense and bear no animosity. You were just doing your job (as I offered my hand).

    Policeman 1 shook my hand with a smile on his face and thanked me for my service to our country. (I was wearing my 'U.S. Army Veteran' baseball cap.)

    Policeman 2: Have a nice day and thanks for your service.

    Me: I've spent a lot of money in there and I can assure you, Sir,I won't go in there again. I will spend my money elsewhere.

    Policeman 1: I don't blame you. Have a good day.

    Both Policemen left. Friend and I left. There were no citations, arrests or tickets issued. Both Policemen were friendly, cordial, polite. I sincerely believe neither of them realized prior to about 16:10, 23May09 that an Indiana LTCH does not require concealed carry.

    Friend always conceals but now he's going to start open carry.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Pierce is a Coward, ,

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    Very good exchange. By the way, the cop isn't supposed to arrest on trespass absent a complaint from the premises owner. It's not a self evident crime, and it's not analogous to a traffic ticket.

  3. #3
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    Nov 2007
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, United States

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    Well it looks like i won't be going to tom's either, as i don't want to offend the owner

  4. #4
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    Jan 2007
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    I think I would have asked if someone in authority there objected to my presence.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Nov 2007
    Rosamond, California, USA

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    It appears that a customer may have called in a MWAG.

    I think the officer was just trying to assert his "authaurahty" by threatening to charge you with tresspass.

    I think that the owner/employees probably had nothing at all to do with the call.

  6. #6
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    Jun 2008
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA

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    Might I suggest a FOIA type request of all information related to this call... the original call, the radio traffic, post incident reports if any.... IN SHORT ANYTHING RELATED TO THE POLICE BEING THERE WHILE YOU WERE THERE.

    Only then, will you know if the owner/manager had anything to do with this incident AT ALL.

    If the company is innocent continue doing business with them. If not, send them a letter telling them that you have been a regular customer for a significant period of time, have never caused an incident, have always paid your bill and tipped well... and that you will abide by their request but would have much rather wished that they would have said something to you directly!

    Include a return contact method, they may even send an apology in return and include a written request that you continue as a customer! Just thinking positive here.

    Just my 0.02...
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  7. #7
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States

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    I would ask the owner... I bet the management nor the owner had anything to do with it! You either had an anti (the old man) or he is one of the CC only crowd!

    I am going to hazard a guess that as you have been going in there for a long time if they really didn't want you there they would have said something before now!!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  8. #8
    Regular Member
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    Nov 2006
    London, , United Kingdom

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    Decoligny wrote:
    It appears that a customer may have called in a MWAG...
    I am glad it all ended well, but cannot understand people who see a gun worn by respectable people, and automatically call the authorities! It can be kind of likened to a the automatic reaction of a dog when youcall out'squirrel.'

    Whenever I'm in the States, and see someone open carry I always think 'lucky bugger to have that right!'

    Long may the 2nd Amendment prevail!!

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