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Thread: Police: Soldier jailed for flashing gun at kids

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    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/47128782.html
    By KOMO Staff
    WEST SEATTLE, Wash. - An apparently intoxicated Army sergeant was arrested after he displayed a revolver at a group of middle school students and yelled obscenities at them near Alki Beach Park.

    Police responded to the scene, near 60th Avenue SW and Alki Avenue SW, at about 7 p.m. Friday.

    Witnesses said the sergeant was walking with a female friend when he got into a confrontation with the young teens.

    He hurled profanities at the teens and pulled up his shirt to display a holstered handgun, frightening the students and many onlookers who were nearby.

    Officers located the sergeant about three blocks away and recovered a .357 magnum revolver from his waistband. He appeared to be under the influence of alcohol, and was also carrying a flask of whiskey, police said.

    The suspect produced a US Army I.D., which identified him as a 25-year-old active-duty sergeant, and a concealed weapon permit issued by the state of Ohio.

    After interviewing victims and witnesses, police determined that the display of the handgun did not appear reasonable in response to any real or perceived threats from the juveniles.

    The suspect was arrested and booked into King County Jail for investigation of unlawful carrying and display of a weapon.

    The sergeant's immediate commanding officer was contacted and made aware of the situation. The revolver and concealed weapon card were placed into evidence.

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    Its illegal to be under the influence and carrying right? or is that just a common-sense issue?

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    It is not illegal, but it is common sense not to be intoxicated while carrying. I still don't think it should be illegal - this man is going to get what he should get, jail time, not because he was drunk while carrying a gun, but because he used it irresponsibly. If you can drink and use a gun responsibly, then do so - it's your right. Don't expect to see me drinking while carrying, though.

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    Its not illegal to be under the influence and carrying. He is jailed just for his irresponsible action.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Well that was certainly a stupid and irresponsible thing for the sergeant to do!
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    deepdiver wrote:
    Well that was certainly a stupid and irresponsible thing for the sergeant to do!
    What a dumbass, especially for an E5 or above, like this guy.

    His month is about to get much, much worse when he gets back to his unit.

    This is an alcohol incident that will most likely go on his permanent military record. He wont be a Sargent for much longer and will probably be busted one or even two pay grades depending on the rank of his CO.

    If this isn't his first alcohol incident, and a NJP (CO mast) finds him guilty, he could be looking at a dishonorable discharge.

    Not sure how it works in the Army, but in the Coast Guard, two strikes and your out.

    Again, what a dumb-ass. Can anyone say, double jeopardy?

    This has .270 written all over it, and is exactly what that law was written for.

    I don't understand the "unlawful carrying" however if he had a valid Ohio permit.:?

    He deserves every bit of what is coming IMHO.




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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I want to play Devil's advocate for a second. I don't think what he is right but we don't know much of the story. How did the confrontation start? Who started it? Where the teens threatening him at all? Of course them and the others who know them around there are not going to tell the police if they did.

    What if he was just trying to get the teens to leave him alone? He showed enough restraint not to pull it out and handle it. Makes me question parts of this story. Another case of not enough information.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Gang activity has been on the rise in the Alki area for a couple years. Earlier this year, I believe, they had a gang related shooting at Alki beach. As gangs aren't limited to adults it wouldn't surprise me if they were the "Teens" who got into a confrontation with the Sgt. I'm not sure if WA has reciprocity with OH. If not then his OH CPL doesn't mean squat. Even if he was being harrassed by gang teens, flashing the gun isn't a bright idea. Pull it if you really need it, but if you're going to CC, keep it hid.

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    I want to play Devil's advocate for a second. I don't think what he is right but we don't know much of the story. How did the confrontation start? Who started it? Where the teens threatening him at all? Of course them and the others who know them around there are not going to tell the police if they did.

    What if he was just trying to get the teens to leave him alone? He showed enough restraint not to pull it out and handle it. Makes me question parts of this story. Another case of not enough information.
    I agree, SVG. I'm guessing that there is a lot more to this story.

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Stupid Army Sergeants! E-5's in the Army are lame, and they smell funny.

    ...oh wait. :P
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    sirpuma wrote:
    Gang activity has been on the rise in the Alki area for a couple years. Earlier this year, I believe, they had a gang related shooting at Alki beach. As gangs aren't limited to adults it wouldn't surprise me if they were the "Teens" who got into a confrontation with the Sgt. I'm not sure if WA has reciprocity with OH. If not then his OH CPL doesn't mean squat. Even if he was being harrassed by gang teens, flashing the gun isn't a bright idea. Pull it if you really need it, but if you're going to CC, keep it hid.
    Middle school gangsters? :quirky

    Could be, but the story as reported is far more likely, besides, as a firearm carrier and a senior enlisted, he is suppose to be in more control than that.

    If the story is accurate, we have three huge no no's for a person who chooses to carry a firearm that this guy broke.

    1) You don't get into shouting matches with people who are trying to piss you off, ESPECIALLY when they are minors.

    2) You don't get intoxicated while carrying a firearm.

    3) You never flash a weapon just to get them to "leave you alone". You better be in fear for your health, not just getting tired of being called names, or whatever taunting the kids were probably doing.

    And unless those kids were threatening his life or flashing their own weapons, its a .270, and this guy is STILL a dumb-ass.

    As always however, the media rarely gets all the details right, and it should be interesting to hear other reports of this incident and how it comes out. It doesn't look good for "sarge" ATM however. If the local courts don't charge him, he is still likely to face NJP charges. Unless this guy has a squeaky clean service record, he looking at an alcohol incident at a minimum.

    And yes, Washington does have reciprocity with Ohio. http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/washington.pdf

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    concealed weapon card were placed into evidence.

    What evidence is that?

    Oh... wait... right.. they just wanted to make sure he couldnt carry concealed anymore...

    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    concealed weapon card were placed into evidence.

    What evidence is that?

    Oh... wait... right.. they just wanted to make sure he couldnt carry concealed anymore...

    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Manu wrote:
    Its not illegal to be under the influence and carrying. He is jailed just for his irresponsible action.
    which was brought about, no doubt, by the presence of alcohol in his system.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    The alcohol didn't "make" him do anything. I'm tired of this excuse from people who think that alcohol or drugs of any sort "make" you do something, as if they whisper in your ear, "Go brandish your gun at this group of kids!" No, the alcohol is an excuse for why he was an idiot and did something stupid. There are many people who can drink or be under the influence of something and be perfectly fine, and just like there are those who are going to be stupid with a gun doesn't mean we all should be disarmed to make sure those people don't carry, the idiots that use the fact that they are drunk as a reason to lose all self control shouldn't dictate the rest not being allowed to put whatever they want in their bodies as they see fit.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    compmanio365 wrote:
    The alcohol didn't "make" him do anything. I'm tired of this excuse from people who think that alcohol or drugs of any sort "make" you do something, as if they whisper in your ear, "Go brandish your gun at this group of kids!" No, the alcohol is an excuse for why he was an idiot and did something stupid. There are many people who can drink or be under the influence of something and be perfectly fine, and just like there are those who are going to be stupid with a gun doesn't mean we all should be disarmed to make sure those people don't carry, the idiots that use the fact that they are drunk as a reason to lose all self control shouldn't dictate the rest not being allowed to put whatever they want in their bodies as they see fit.
    I absolutely agree.

    Its just an excuse, and people are and should be held fully responsible for their behaviors. The culmination of their choices that lead to the behavior should also be used fully against them. Far too often we give people the "victim of the chemical" label, and let them off, or reduce the persons punishment (or "rehabilitation time") because of it.

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    FMCDH wrote:
    Middle school gangsters? :quirky
    Absolutely. They're all over the country. Gangs like to get 'em young.

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    I was at a bust stop out about 163rd yesterday.Went to the Pancake Chef for breakfast.Beat breakfast in town by the way.Most of you guys that know me know I OC every waking hour everywhere.While at this bus stop these to gang bangers coming across the street making smart ass remarks toward me.I did not say a word but as they got closer I put out my smoke,turned strong side and heard an O s..t and they changed direction in a hurry.In my mind that is not threatening as I did not say a word did not look at them just stood there arms crossed waiting for my bus. I do believe they thought they would harass the old guy.By the way absolutley no issues on any bus.

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    Deros that is a very rough area of town.... That is the reason why pan cake cheff do nto open for dinner. Owner's daughter and cook of pancake chef is manager at Dino's we share many receipiesamong three restaurants.

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    They also had no issue with me open carry.Really good breakfasts.

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    antispam540 wrote:
    It is not illegal, but it is common sense not to be intoxicated while carrying. I still don't think it should be illegal - this man is going to get what he should get, jail time, not because he was drunk while carrying a gun, but because he used it irresponsibly. If you can drink and use a gun responsibly, then do so - it's your right. Don't expect to see me drinking while carrying, though.
    I think it should be illegal to be intoxicated while carrying a gun in public. Very similar to our DUI laws. Same concept.

    Here's how I think it could be done:

    Situation: Gun carrier, OC or CC is in public and intoxicated. Say, BAC of .14 and over.

    Proposed Law: Would provide for immediate suspension of gun carrier's right/permit to carry a gun. Investigation would ensue of drunken gun carrier's history, looking for signs of drug/alchohol abuse/dependence. If confirmed, cancel gun carry rights. If not, suspend carry rights for a reasonable time period.



    Seems reasonable to me. Plus, it's where we will inevitably end up a few years down the road. (Except the BAC threshold will be lower...)



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    DEROS72 wrote:
    They also had no issue with me open carry.Really good breakfasts.
    I trained them good

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    You sure did Manu.On the subject of drinking and carrying.I have carried and had a beer or 2 in a resturant with food.However if I am planning to go to a party where I intend to have a few.The weapon stays home.I went to a sports bar with my kids last season to watch the Seahawks.I know you can't carry in a bar so I locked the pistol in the car.Of course people were staring at my empty holster.Thinking well he could just run to the car and get it if he got pissed.Well, one thats not me and 2 if I have a firearm with me I still limit the drinks and have food.

    I took a date to Billy Mchales a few weeks back OC.Had a glass of merlot with dinner.I don't consider it an issue for me.But some think a side arm is to bring out because someone calls you a name or to make a point.Really stupid......

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Heres another question.I just walked back from the little Mexican store near here.Really great folks that run that little place by the way. A coupl kids walking by asked are you police.? I said no.One kid looked and said dude look thats a cool gun.Now he could go to his parents and say he saw this guy and he was showing his gun.What do you do with that.? They could call the police and say this guy was showing their kids his gun even though it was firmly in my retention holster.

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    IF... the police have a clue, which the SeaTac police generally do, they will ask the kids exactly what they saw.

    While we do plan for the unexpected or unwanted attention, we can't go through life worrying about what if's all the time...

    If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle, but I'm not going to worry about it....
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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