• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Police: Soldier jailed for flashing gun at kids

HankT

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
imported post

antispam540 wrote:
It is not illegal, but it is common sense not to be intoxicated while carrying. I still don't think it should be illegal - this man is going to get what he should get, jail time, not because he was drunk while carrying a gun, but because he used it irresponsibly. If you can drink and use a gun responsibly, then do so - it's your right. Don't expect to see me drinking while carrying, though.
Click to expand...

I think it should be illegal to be intoxicated while carrying a gun in public. Very similar to our DUI laws. Same concept.

Here's how I think it could be done:

Situation: Gun carrier, OC or CC is in public and intoxicated. Say, BAC of .14 and over.

Proposed Law: Would provide for immediate suspension of gun carrier's right/permit to carry a gun. Investigation would ensue of drunken gun carrier's history, looking for signs of drug/alchohol abuse/dependence. If confirmed, cancel gun carry rights. If not, suspend carry rights for a reasonable time period.



Seems reasonable to me. Plus, it's where we will inevitably end up a few years down the road. (Except the BAC threshold will be lower...)
 
DEROS72

DEROS72

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,817
Location
Valhalla
imported post

You sure did Manu.On the subject of drinking and carrying.I have carried and had a beer or 2 in a resturant with food.However if I am planning to go to a party where I intend to have a few.The weapon stays home.I went to a sports bar with my kids last season to watch the Seahawks.I know you can't carry in a bar so I locked the pistol in the car.Of course people were staring at my empty holster.Thinking well he could just run to the car and get it if he got pissed.Well, one thats not me and 2 if I have a firearm with me I still limit the drinks and have food.

I took a date to Billy Mchales a few weeks back OC.Had a glass of merlot with dinner.I don't consider it an issue for me.But some think a side arm is to bring out because someone calls you a name or to make a point.Really stupid......
 
DEROS72

DEROS72

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,817
Location
Valhalla
imported post

Heres another question.I just walked back from the little Mexican store near here.Really great folks that run that little place by the way. A coupl kids walking by asked are you police.? I said no_One kid looked and said dude look thats a cool gun.Now he could go to his parents and say he saw this guy and he was showing his gun.What do you do with that.? They could call the police and say this guy was showing their kids his gun even though it was firmly in my retention holster.
 
j2l3

j2l3

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
871
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
imported post

IF... the police have a clue, which the SeaTac police generally do, they will ask the kids exactly what they saw.

While we do plan for the unexpected or unwanted attention, we can't go through life worrying about what if's all the time...

If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle, but I'm not going to worry about it....
 
DEROS72

DEROS72

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,817
Location
Valhalla
imported post

Thats true.These kids arn't likely to do that and all the Seatac cops know me .It was just a what if that came to mind as I was walking home.
 
M

Manu

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
504
Location
South Puget Sound, Washington, USA
imported post

If their parents will call cops then definately they are going to investigate and then you can explain everything to them and hopefully officer investigating will understand everything what ever you want to tell him ;), BTW Jill just walked in and was telling me that you were there at pancake chef, she tried to get your attention but you were busy talking to her dad.
 
DEROS72

DEROS72

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,817
Location
Valhalla
imported post

My apologies I was talking and I didn't see her.I look for her next time I drop in.
 
marshaul

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

FMCDH wrote:
compmanio365 wrote:
The alcohol didn't "make" him do anything.  I'm tired of this excuse from people who think that alcohol or drugs of any sort "make" you do something, as if they whisper in your ear, "Go brandish your gun at this group of kids!"  No, the alcohol is an excuse for why he was an idiot and did something stupid.  There are many people who can drink or be under the influence of something and be perfectly fine, and just like there are those who are going to be stupid with a gun doesn't mean we all should be disarmed to make sure those people don't carry, the idiots that use the fact that they are drunk as a reason to lose all self control shouldn't dictate the rest not being allowed to put whatever they want in their bodies as they see fit.
Click to expand...
I absolutely agree.

Its just an excuse, and people are and should be held fully responsible for their behaviors. The culmination of their choices that lead to the behavior should also be used fully against them. Far too often we give people the "victim of the chemical" label, and let them off, or reduce the persons punishment (or "rehabilitation time") because of it.
Click to expand...
+100
 
marshaul

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

HankT wrote:
antispam540 wrote:
It is not illegal, but it is common sense not to be intoxicated while carrying.  I still don't think it should be illegal - this man is going to get what he should get, jail time, not because he was drunk while carrying a gun, but because he used it irresponsibly.  If you can drink and use a gun responsibly, then do so - it's your right.  Don't expect to see me drinking while carrying, though.
Click to expand...

I think it should be illegal to be intoxicated while carrying a gun in public. Very similar to our DUI laws. Same concept.

Here's how I think it could be done:

Situation: Gun carrier, OC or CC is in public and intoxicated. Say, BAC of .14 and over. 

Proposed Law: Would provide for immediate suspension of gun carrier's right/permit to carry a gun. Investigation would ensue of  drunken gun carrier's history, looking for signs of drug/alchohol abuse/dependence. If confirmed, cancel gun carry rights. If not, suspend carry rights for a reasonable time period.

 

Seems reasonable to me.  Plus, it's where we will inevitably end up a few years down the road. (Except the BAC threshold will be lower...)
Click to expand...
You'll be this law's biggest advocate.

Last time we had the debate you proposed .15 BAC. Maybe you can see why, when we hear "this is inevitable" and "the limits will end up being lower anyway" coming from a person with such transparent motivations, we disregard you outright.

No such thing is inevitable, and while there remains no push for it I intend to do my damnedest to argue the side of reason and liberty to my fellow gun owners, just to spite your fiendish machinations. ;)
 
DEROS72

DEROS72

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,817
Location
Valhalla
imported post

By hankt's proposed law I would loose rights.I have a script for morphine and percocet for intense chronic pain that can't be surgically corrected. I also have congestive heart failure.I will not give up my rights because of a medical condition I have no control over.So do you all think I should loose my rights because of this???I think not.
 
FMCDH

FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
imported post

DEROS72 wrote:
By hankt's proposed law I would loose rights.I have a script for morphine and percocet for intense chronic pain that can't be surgically corrected. I also have congestive heart failure.I will not give up my rights because of a medical condition I have no control over.So do you all think I should loose my rights because of this???I think not.
Click to expand...
To be fair, the consumption of alcohol is not a "medical condition" it is a choice, pure and simple, regardless of alcoholism status.

Anyone can choose NOT put the bottle to their lips and with no chance of their NOT drinking having killed them or kept them from functioning.

You don't have that choice Deros, and your medication consumption is regulated by a doctor (I assume). When I see someone carrying a genuine prescription from a doctor that calls for the consumption of 3 beers, and 2 shots with dinner, then by all miens. :?

I have no problem with someone having a beer or two with dinner, but if the alcohol consumption impairs their ability to use that firearm for the purpose it is being carried in the first place, they deserve to loose that right until they get help or get their head on straight.
 
DEROS72

DEROS72

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,817
Location
Valhalla
imported post

I do have percriptionds for these.But I also feel I don't have to answer to anyone regarding my right to bear arms.I had someone say to me I shouldn't carry because I have had 4 heart attacks in the last few years.I could have another one and pass out and someone steal my gun.Oh well!!!.It is still my right untill i'm dead.

by the way the morphine and percocet perscribed to me are not mind altering drugs.
 
G

G27

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
573
Location
Kitsap County, Washington, USA
imported post

Hank is a troll and likes to stir the pot. I'd pay no attention to his pointless posts that only sow hate and discontent. A human still has the right to self defense even if they are intoxicated. While I may not agree with this my opinion isn't law and I am thankful that it isn't.
 
DEROS72

DEROS72

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,817
Location
Valhalla
imported post

Thank you!!! Although I have in the past had a couple of beers while in a resturant I have never carried while intoxicated.Personally I also think it irresonsible.There are some on this board thatlife with a firearm in the past.It is something I would like to get through the rest of my days without doing again.I see people here that like to talk guns ,know specs and talk big but have never been in a gun fight.They have no clue what it is like.
 
P

PT111

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Messages
2,243
Location
, South Carolina, USA
imported post

FMCDH wrote:
You don't have that choice Deros, and your medication consumption is regulated by a doctor (I assume). When I see someone carrying a genuine prescription from a doctor that calls for the consumption of 3 beers, and 2 shots with dinner, then by all miens. :?
Click to expand...
The doctor told my 70 year-old Baptist Grandmother who had never had an alcoholic drink in her life that she needed to drink a beer a day for her kidneys. I told her to think of it as medicine and I would be glad to pick it up for her. She thought about it for a minute and said NO. :)
 
DEROS72

DEROS72

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,817
Location
Valhalla
imported post

Exactly I don't have a choice at this point.I am on a truck load of drugs to keep me alive and out of pain so I can function.
 
FMCDH

FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
imported post

PT111 wrote:
FMCDH wrote:
You don't have that choice Deros, and your medication consumption is regulated by a doctor (I assume). When I see someone carrying a genuine prescription from a doctor that calls for the consumption of 3 beers, and 2 shots with dinner, then by all miens. :?
Click to expand...
The doctor told my 70 year-old Baptist Grandmother who had never had an alcoholic drink in her life that she needed to drink a beer a day for her kidneys. I told her to think of it as medicine and I would be glad to pick it up for her. She thought about it for a minute and said NO. :)
Click to expand...
That's a new one I will admit. Most doctors I have heard of temporarily suggest wine to help some ailments, but never heard of beer being prescribed. What exactly was in beer that she needed for her kidneys, did he say?
 
M

Manu

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
504
Location
South Puget Sound, Washington, USA
imported post

DEROS72 wrote:
.....I see people here that like to talk guns ,know specs and talk big but have never been in a gun fight.They have no clue what it is like.
Click to expand...
So true Deros. I have been there, I know how it is. every sence gets so hightened that you start feeling overwhelmed that you get to a point going senceless, it sounds crazy but it is true.
 
N

New Daddy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
123
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
imported post

FMCDH wrote:
DEROS72 wrote:
By hankt's proposed law I would loose rights.I have a script for morphine and percocet for intense chronic pain that can't be surgically corrected. I also have congestive heart failure.I will not give up my rights because of a medical condition I have no control over.So do you all think I should loose my rights because of this???I think not.
Click to expand...
To be fair, the consumption of alcohol is not a "medical condition" it is a choice, pure and simple, regardless of alcoholism status.

Anyone can choose NOT put the bottle to their lips and with no chance of their NOT drinking having killed them or kept them from functioning.

You don't have that choice Deros, and your medication consumption is regulated by a doctor (I assume). When I see someone carrying a genuine prescription from a doctor that calls for the consumption of 3 beers, and 2 shots with dinner, then by all miens. :?

I have no problem with someone having a beer or two with dinner, but if the alcohol consumption impairs their ability to use that firearm for the purpose it is being carried in the first place, they deserve to loose that right until they get help or get their head on straight.
Click to expand...
I'm not coming down on the side of the drinkers here - my personal policy is alcohol = no gun, but my wife has brought home a prescription for wine before, so it can and does happen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top