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Anything I should know about OC in Colo Sprgs?
- Thread starter ooghost1oo
- Start date
cscitney87
Regular Member
imported post
bomber wrote:
I own a business. I manage the business from home. I hire Ron to be the greeter. I say, "Ron, if anybody comes into this building with a gun I need you tell them to leave. If they don't leave call the police right away."
Days later, Bomber comes into my store OC. Ron stops him at the double doors. Ron says, "Sorry, Bomber, but you cannot carry your weapon here. I need you to leave now."
Bomber says, "No offense, Ron, but I would like to speak with your manager about this." Bomber keeps walking (or stands still) -
EITHER WAY- NO matter what happens from this point forward- Ron's reaction will be the same
Ron calls 911 immediatly to report this. Officers are on the way.
I get a phone call, at home, from the police. They tell me that a man with a gun entered my business and did not leave when requested to do so. Would I like to press charges for.. you guessed it.. Trespassing.
Even if Bomber made it passed Ron, to the "manager", he was already asked to leave once- officially. The manager will repeat Ron's words. The cops arrive and the manger says.. We told the guy to leave more than once. That's all the cops need to hear. You needed to leave the first time. If you left between talking to the manager and the cops showing up- you are on camera.
Guys.. It's literally THAT easy to get into a bind. Even easier if I, the owner, had posted a No Firearms sign.
The entire world doesn't work like Walmart or Sam's Club or Home Depot. There is no need for a chain of command in a private establishment.
Once again.. in a private establishment there is NO need for any type of chain of command.
You walk into my HOUSE OC and my aunt asks you to leave.. Legally you still have to leave.. Even though it was my aunt and not ME, whom you spoke with. When Me, the owner, backs up the aunt on the call- the cops won't hesitate to move forward with charges.
bomber wrote:
About the "manager" thing... Look I am NOT trying to pick at this issue but I feel like I HAVE to clear this up with an example.
I own a business. I manage the business from home. I hire Ron to be the greeter. I say, "Ron, if anybody comes into this building with a gun I need you tell them to leave. If they don't leave call the police right away."
Days later, Bomber comes into my store OC. Ron stops him at the double doors. Ron says, "Sorry, Bomber, but you cannot carry your weapon here. I need you to leave now."
Bomber says, "No offense, Ron, but I would like to speak with your manager about this." Bomber keeps walking (or stands still) -
EITHER WAY- NO matter what happens from this point forward- Ron's reaction will be the same
Ron calls 911 immediatly to report this. Officers are on the way.
I get a phone call, at home, from the police. They tell me that a man with a gun entered my business and did not leave when requested to do so. Would I like to press charges for.. you guessed it.. Trespassing.
Even if Bomber made it passed Ron, to the "manager", he was already asked to leave once- officially. The manager will repeat Ron's words. The cops arrive and the manger says.. We told the guy to leave more than once. That's all the cops need to hear. You needed to leave the first time. If you left between talking to the manager and the cops showing up- you are on camera.
Guys.. It's literally THAT easy to get into a bind. Even easier if I, the owner, had posted a No Firearms sign.
The entire world doesn't work like Walmart or Sam's Club or Home Depot. There is no need for a chain of command in a private establishment.
Once again.. in a private establishment there is NO need for any type of chain of command.
You walk into my HOUSE OC and my aunt asks you to leave.. Legally you still have to leave.. Even though it was my aunt and not ME, whom you spoke with. When Me, the owner, backs up the aunt on the call- the cops won't hesitate to move forward with charges.
desettle
Regular Member
imported post
cscitney87 wrote:
Yes you are correct as the Colorado State Statues says:
[font=Arial,Bold]
[align=left]18-4-502. First degree criminal trespass.[/align]
[align=left][/font]A person commits the crime of first degree criminal trespass if such person knowingly and unlawfully enters or remains in a dwelling of another or if such person enters any motor vehicle with intent to commit a crime therein. First degree criminal trespass is a class 5 felony.[font=Arial,Bold][/align]
[align=left]18-4-503. Second degree criminal trespass.
(1) A person commits the crime of second degree criminal trespass if such person:[/align]
[align=left](a) Unlawfully enters or remains in or upon the premises of another which are enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders or are fenced; or[/align]
[align=left](b) Knowingly and unlawfully enters or remains in or upon
the common areas of a hotel, motel, condominium, or apartment building; or[/align]
[align=left](c) Knowingly and unlawfully enters or remains in a motor vehicle of another.[/align]
[align=left](2) Second degree criminal trespass is a class 3 misdemeanor, but:[/align]
[align=left](a) It is a class 2 misdemeanor if the premises have been classified by the county assessor for the county in which the land is situated as agricultural land pursuant to section 39-1-102 (1.6), C.R.S.; and[/align]
[align=left](b) It is a class 4 felony if the person trespasses on premises so classified as agricultural land with the intent to commit a felony thereon.[/align]
[align=left](3) Whenever a person is convicted of, pleads guilty or nolo contendere to, receives a deferred judgment or sentence for, or is adjudicated a juvenile delinquent for, a violation of paragraph (c) of subsection (1) of this section, the offender's driver's license shall be revoked as provided in section 42-2-125, C.R.S.
Proof of dwelling crucial for first degree trespass. The crucial distinction between first degree criminal trespass and second and third degree is that the prosecution must prove the additional element that the property which was unlawfully entered is a dwelling for first degree trespass. People v.Marshall, 196 Colo. 381, 586 P.2d 41 (1978).[/align]
[align=left]Second degree criminal trespass is a lesser included offense of second degree burglary (§18-4-203). Second degree criminal trespass requires the defendant to unlawfully enteror remain on the premises of another that are enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders. By definition, if a building or structure exists, entry of which is required for second degree burglary, the building or structure is designed to exclude intruders. Thus, all of the elements of second degree criminal trespass are included in the offense of second degree burglary. People v. MacBlane, 952 P.2d 824(Colo. App. 1997).
[font=Arial,Bold]18-4-504. Third degree criminal trespass.[/align]
[align=left](1) A person commits the crime of third degree criminal trespass if such person unlawfully enters or remains in or upon premises of another.[/align]
[align=left](2) Third degree criminal trespass is a class 1 petty offense,[/align]
[align=left]but:[/align]
[align=left](a) It is a class 3 misdemeanor if the premises have been classified by the county assessor for the county in which the land is situated as agricultural land pursuant to section 39-1- 102 (1.6), C.R.S.; and[/align]
[align=left](b) It is a class 5 felony if the person trespasses on premises so classified as agricultural land with the intent to commit a felony thereon.
I hope this does not muddy up the discussion, but I thought it pertianent to what is being talked of here.[/align]
[align=left]Basically, as mentioned above; if you are asked to leave simply leave. You can always talk with the business owner over the phone or go back, without your gun, to discuss further.[/align]
[align=left]-desettle
[/align][/font][/font]
cscitney87 wrote:
Yes you are correct as the Colorado State Statues says:
[font=Arial,Bold]
[align=left]18-4-502. First degree criminal trespass.[/align]
[align=left][/font]A person commits the crime of first degree criminal trespass if such person knowingly and unlawfully enters or remains in a dwelling of another or if such person enters any motor vehicle with intent to commit a crime therein. First degree criminal trespass is a class 5 felony.[font=Arial,Bold][/align]
[align=left]18-4-503. Second degree criminal trespass.
(1) A person commits the crime of second degree criminal trespass if such person:[/align]
[align=left](a) Unlawfully enters or remains in or upon the premises of another which are enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders or are fenced; or[/align]
[align=left](b) Knowingly and unlawfully enters or remains in or upon
the common areas of a hotel, motel, condominium, or apartment building; or[/align]
[align=left](c) Knowingly and unlawfully enters or remains in a motor vehicle of another.[/align]
[align=left](2) Second degree criminal trespass is a class 3 misdemeanor, but:[/align]
[align=left](a) It is a class 2 misdemeanor if the premises have been classified by the county assessor for the county in which the land is situated as agricultural land pursuant to section 39-1-102 (1.6), C.R.S.; and[/align]
[align=left](b) It is a class 4 felony if the person trespasses on premises so classified as agricultural land with the intent to commit a felony thereon.[/align]
[align=left](3) Whenever a person is convicted of, pleads guilty or nolo contendere to, receives a deferred judgment or sentence for, or is adjudicated a juvenile delinquent for, a violation of paragraph (c) of subsection (1) of this section, the offender's driver's license shall be revoked as provided in section 42-2-125, C.R.S.
Proof of dwelling crucial for first degree trespass. The crucial distinction between first degree criminal trespass and second and third degree is that the prosecution must prove the additional element that the property which was unlawfully entered is a dwelling for first degree trespass. People v.Marshall, 196 Colo. 381, 586 P.2d 41 (1978).[/align]
[align=left]Second degree criminal trespass is a lesser included offense of second degree burglary (§18-4-203). Second degree criminal trespass requires the defendant to unlawfully enteror remain on the premises of another that are enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders. By definition, if a building or structure exists, entry of which is required for second degree burglary, the building or structure is designed to exclude intruders. Thus, all of the elements of second degree criminal trespass are included in the offense of second degree burglary. People v. MacBlane, 952 P.2d 824(Colo. App. 1997).
[font=Arial,Bold]18-4-504. Third degree criminal trespass.[/align]
[align=left](1) A person commits the crime of third degree criminal trespass if such person unlawfully enters or remains in or upon premises of another.[/align]
[align=left](2) Third degree criminal trespass is a class 1 petty offense,[/align]
[align=left]but:[/align]
[align=left](a) It is a class 3 misdemeanor if the premises have been classified by the county assessor for the county in which the land is situated as agricultural land pursuant to section 39-1- 102 (1.6), C.R.S.; and[/align]
[align=left](b) It is a class 5 felony if the person trespasses on premises so classified as agricultural land with the intent to commit a felony thereon.
I hope this does not muddy up the discussion, but I thought it pertianent to what is being talked of here.[/align]
[align=left]Basically, as mentioned above; if you are asked to leave simply leave. You can always talk with the business owner over the phone or go back, without your gun, to discuss further.[/align]
[align=left]-desettle
[/align][/font][/font]
since9
Campaign Veteran
imported post
cscitney87 wrote:
Er... Desettle is correct. Furthermore, employees acting in good faith commensurate with store policy, be it verbal or written, are duly authorized agents of that store by virtue of their employment with that store, within the limits delineated in store policy and law.
Thus, if store policy says "no firearms," any employee of that store, all the way down to the 16-year-old night restocker, carries "agency" for the store, and represent the interests of the store if they ask you to leave. There are legal limits for those under 18 with respect to liability (such contracts being held non-binding without an adult's authorization), but that's to protect both the store and the minor. Even the five-year-old son of a small business owner can legally ask you to leave if he's in the store's employ.
Thus, if I were asked to leave, I'd leave, and would return later, sans weapon, to request a conference with a manager to clarify policy.
cscitney87 wrote:
Er... Desettle is correct. Furthermore, employees acting in good faith commensurate with store policy, be it verbal or written, are duly authorized agents of that store by virtue of their employment with that store, within the limits delineated in store policy and law.
Thus, if store policy says "no firearms," any employee of that store, all the way down to the 16-year-old night restocker, carries "agency" for the store, and represent the interests of the store if they ask you to leave. There are legal limits for those under 18 with respect to liability (such contracts being held non-binding without an adult's authorization), but that's to protect both the store and the minor. Even the five-year-old son of a small business owner can legally ask you to leave if he's in the store's employ.
Thus, if I were asked to leave, I'd leave, and would return later, sans weapon, to request a conference with a manager to clarify policy.