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Thread: GW Parkway OC?

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Hello. New to the forum. I live in Bethesda but work in Arlington. I drive on the GW Parkway every day. Are there different rules for OC since this is Federal Property?

    Many thanks,

    Stu

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    GW Parkway is actually a National Park Services property, so you will have to wait till the Credit Card Bill takes effect next year.

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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    Not so much open carry as plain ol' carry, whether open or concealed. For now, the GW Parkway is a National Park and as such, you're prohibited from carrying an unsecured and/or loaded firearm while in that "park."

    As it stands right now, that will change in February when the new law kicks in, but until then, you're prohibited from carrying a usable gun on the Parkway.

    Just out of curiosity, how would you plan to get your gun from Bethesda to Virginia, since handguns are so heavily regulated there?

    ~ Boyd

    ETA: "There" meaning Maryland, of course.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    I thought the new bill address CC, not OC. Can you clarify for me?

    Thanks,

    Stu

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    swinokur wrote:
    I thought the new bill address CC, not OC. Can you clarify for me?

    Thanks,

    Stu
    Until the new bill takes effect, you areNOT allowed to carry a LOADED gun in national parks, period. It doesn't matter if you OC or CC as Boyd has pointed out. If you are just driving through GW Parkway, unload your weapon and put it in a secured place (other than glove box or center console) so you don't get in deep doodoos if pulled over.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    I have purchased a small portable laptop PC sized lockable safe from Gunvault that I will use to get to Virginia. It is a new item and will be available after 6-25 according to the Gubvault web site. That would comply with federal law. I hate MD's arcaiic gun laws. I feel like a subject, not a citizen.

    Stu

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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    The pertinent section of the bill reads:

    The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--

    (1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and

    (2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.
    As you can see, there's nothing in the bill addressing the manner of carry. It simply says that the surrounding state's laws are the guide.

    ~ Boyd

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Great. Thanks for the info. I will wait until February. But I can keep an unloaded handgun in a locked case in my SUV until then?

    Stu

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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    swinokur wrote:
    I have purchased a small portable laptop PC sized lockable safe from Gunvault that I will use to get to Virginia. It is a new item and will be available after 6-25 according to the Gubvault web site. That would comply with federal law. I hate MD's arcaiic gun laws. I feel like a subject, not a citizen.

    Stu
    I don't pretend to know everything about Maryland's gun laws, but I'd strongly recommend that you double check to be sure what you plan to do still doesn't run afoul of their law.

    As I read Title 4 Section 203 of Maryland's Criminal Law, it doesn't appear to me to allow what you want to do, and since you live in Maryland, I don't think the Federal statute overrides Maryland law for you.

    I could be wrong, of course, but if I were in your shoes, I'd take steps to satisfy myself that I wouldn't get a felony conviction on my record. But that's not a Virginia issue, so I'll shut up now.

    ~ Boyd

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    swinokur wrote:
    ....I hate MD's arcaiic gun laws. I feel like a subject, not a citizen.

    Stu
    When I first moved to DC area, due to a severe brain fart, I decided to rent in Maryland, PG County of all places. It didn't take me more than a few weeks to figure out it was not a place I want to live. I broke the lease and hi-tailed to VA shortly thereafter. Been happy ever since.

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    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    Chuckles wrote:
    swinokur wrote:
    ....I hate MD's arcaiic gun laws. I feel like a subject, not a citizen.

    Stu
    When I first moved to DC area, due to a severe brain fart, I decided to rent in Maryland, PG County of all places. It didn't take me more than a few weeks to figure out it was not a place I want to live. I broke the lease and hi-tailed to VA shortly thereafter. Been happy ever since.
    I won't even stop my car in the state of Maryland on the few occasions I am forced to drive through it. No gas, no food, no hotels. They hate my guns, they won't get any of my money.

    Too bad too because there are a number of "roadfood" kind places I would love to try out , specially over on the shore.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    What I intend to do after next February is to place my unloaded handgun in a locked box (in compliance with federal law) and drive into Virginia down the GW parkway. The MD handgun law doesn't apply to interstate travel, so I believe the federal law applies. When I get into Virginia, as I read it, I can then unlock and load the handgun and start OC'ing. Can I leave my weapon in my vehicle in Arlington unloaded and in a locked case?


    I will check with an LEO from both states before I do any of this, to avoid any problems.

    Thanks for keeping me out of "trouble"

    Stu

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    swinokur wrote:
    I will check with an LEO from both states

    Stu
    THAT will probably get you MORE in trouble. Most LEO's can't tell you what the laws are... we have all seen that on these message boards. Besides.. Your defense of "officer smith, badge #123 told me I could carry loaded on the parkway" and $4.00 will still get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks and thats about it.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    I guess I need to contact the Commonwealth Attorney to get an iinterpretation. It seems to me I need to comply with Federal law to travel interstate. Then comply with Virginia law once I arrive.

    Stu

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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    My Layman's understanding of the Federal law is along these lines:

    When I travel from Virginia to Pennsylvania, I don't have to worry about meeting Maryland's requirements while I transit the state. So I don't have to be going to a range, a gun shop, a business which I own, etc.

    I'm not so sure that it would cover me if I lived in Maryland, whether or not I'm leaving the state for my travel. I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm just saying that I don't think a layman can read the law, both federal and Maryland, and understand the potential pitfalls on his own. And the downside of making the wrong decision could be catastrophic to one's gun rights.

    ~ Boyd

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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    If I were a Maryland State Trooper, interested in crushing the little people who have the audacity to think they can protect themselves with a gun, here's how I'd interpret the law:

    You ain't left the state yet, so it ain't interstate travel. Hence, Maryland law applies. You're not going to one of the allowed places to travel with a handgun, so I get to put you in cuffs, impound your vehicle and all the other stuff that makes my job so much fun.

    Man, I'm so glad I don't live in Maryland any more!

    ~ Boyd

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    swinokur wrote:
    What I intend to do after next February is to place my unloaded handgun in a locked box (in compliance with federal law) and drive into Virginia down the GW parkway. The MD handgun law doesn't apply to interstate travel, so I believe the federal law applies. When I get into Virginia, as I read it, I can then unlock and load the handgun and start OC'ing. Can I leave my weapon in my vehicle in Arlington unloaded and in a locked case?


    I will check with an LEO from both states before I do any of this, to avoid any problems.

    Thanks for keeping me out of "trouble"

    Stu
    An officer in Virginia may feel that the weapon in a car is a concealed weapon, although if it is in the a locked case or in the trunk you should be fine, trunk is best, then there is no question. You could consider applying for a Virginia non-resident CWP, see here.

    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_...Concealed.shtm

    Then you can carry open or concealed in Virginia, and store in your car. Would give you the option of concealing and protect you from accidentally concealing, such as when a shirt or jacket could accidentally cover the weapon.

    Be very careful on the GW parkway until the new law takes affect. Personally I would put the case in the trunk if I was gonna do this.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Agreed. I will write the Commonwealth Attorney for an interpretation. As I read it the Federal law says if traveling interstate, and I have no trunk, the handgun must be in a locked case, unloaded. I will do this prior to leaving Maryland. I am buying a small safe for this. After crossing the state line but not going out of Virginia, I need to comply with VA law. This is my interpretation but I obviously need written confirmation of this before doing it.


    Stu

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    This is very informative. I have an SUV with no lockable compartment. That is why I am buying a small vehicle safe to comply with Federal law. I am not going to drive on the GW with a handgun until the new law becomes effective in February under any circumstances.

    Thanks for the info on the non resident CCW.

    Stu

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    I think I could make the case that even if I was not doing one of the few things MD allows, the fact that the handgun was in a locked case may convince a judge that my intent was to travel Interstate. MD law only requires that when doing an activity like travel to a range or gun store that the handgun be unloaded and in an enclosed case or holster. The fact that I put it in a locked case and am headed towards VA may be enough to prove my case. But I guess I need to decide how aggressive the MSP may be if I'm stopped going across the Legion bridge with an unloaded weapon in a locked case.

    Stu

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    TexasNative wrote:
    If I were a Maryland State Trooper, interested in crushing the little people who have the audacity to think they can protect themselves with a gun, here's how I'd interpret the law:

    You ain't left the state yet, so it ain't interstate travel. Hence, Maryland law applies. You're not going to one of the allowed places to travel with a handgun, so I get to put you in cuffs, impound your vehicle and all the other stuff that makes my job so much fun.

    Man, I'm so glad I don't live in Maryland any more!

    ~ Boyd
    Where does it say the gun range has to be in Maryland. I was born and raised in Maryland, lived there untill I retired in 2002. While in Maryland keep unloaded and in the trunk. While Maryland's gun laws are bad as far as SD and CCW they are now the Peoples Republic of New York or Jersey.
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  22. #22
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    It sure doesn't say the range has to be in Maryland. I have no doubt that, with a little forethought and careful planning, one could lie to LEOs/judges/juries and give them enough doubt to send you on your way.

    On the other hand, if someone chooses to pursue that route, they have to always be on top of their game. A slip-up at the wrong time could send them up the proverbial creek without the proverbial paddle.

    That's one of the reasons why I'm so glad I live in Virginia. While there are a few times when I'm required to disarm, they are thankfully very few, and I can follow the law and still be prepared to defend myself and family. I'm not put into the position that folks in Maryland are.

    ~ Boyd

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    swinokur wrote:
    I think I could make the case that even if I was not doing one of the few things MD allows, the fact that the handgun was in a locked case may convince a judge that my intent was to travel Interstate. MD law only requires that when doing an activity like travel to a range or gun store that the handgun be unloaded and in an enclosed case or holster. The fact that I put it in a locked case and am headed towards VA may be enough to prove my case. But I guess I need to decide how aggressive the MSP may be if I'm stopped going across the Legion bridge with an unloaded weapon in a locked case.

    Stu
    Snips from MD 4-203:
    (b)This section does not prohibit:
    (3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

    See also:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum28/25158.html

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    TexasNative wrote:
    It sure doesn't say the range has to be in Maryland. I have no doubt that, with a little forethought and careful planning, one could lie to LEOs/judges/juries and give them enough doubt to send you on your way.

    On the other hand, if someone chooses to pursue that route, they have to always be on top of their game. A slip-up at the wrong time could send them up the proverbial creek without the proverbial paddle.

    That's one of the reasons why I'm so glad I live in Virginia. While there are a few times when I'm required to disarm, they are thankfully very few, and I can follow the law and still be prepared to defend myself and family. I'm not put into the position that folks in Maryland are.

    ~ Boyd

    I have no intention of everlying to a judge or an LEO. All I am saying is I think I can prove my case to a judge/LEO if I am stopped for driving into VA with my unloaded handgun in a locked case as per federal interstate gun transportation law.

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    swinokur wrote:

    I have no intention of everlying to a judge or an LEO. All I am saying is I think I can prove my case to a judge/LEO if I am stopped for driving into VA with my unloaded handgun in a locked case as per federal interstate gun transportation law.
    If you exercise your right to remain silent from the moment you are detained then you should be fine.

    Of course, I'm not a lawyer. You should ask an attorney what he recommends that you do.

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