Idaho man facing 2nd degree murder for defending himself against enraged attacker needs your help.

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I would feel a whole lot better about being asked to donate to someone's legal defense if some kind of credible person was doing the asking. Its not about whether he is truthful or not, there is just no way to judge a more or less anonymous poster's credibility, especially when he is a relative of the defendant.

I have donated to several such cases, but its always been when someone I personally considered credible had taken a look at the situation and reported it was a worthy cause.

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Ron M wrote:

I did not want to start a firestorm of debate with my original post,

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Not to worry. If somebody posts about what a nice day it is, a firestorm of debate is certain to ensue. Some folks just have this need to disagree, or at least engage in a lively discussion of just HOW nice a day it is and why this day is nicer, or not, from other days.

As for your brother, my wife and I will do what we can and offer our prayers. I was once falsely accused by a now ex-wife and narrowly avoided an unfortunate legal entanglement (fortunately, she recanted before it got too far).

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markand wrote:

SNIP If somebody posts about what a nice day it is, a firestorm of debate is certain to ensue. Some folks just have this need to disagree, or at least engage in a lively discussion of just HOW nice a day it is and why this day is nicer, or not, from other days.

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No, we don't!!

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Not to give the wrong opinion of myself, but having options to shooting is always a good thing. While I was awaiting the arrival of my CCW renewal, I went about my busness knowing that I can defend myself against most known credible threats. I learned cane fighting, and the use of a knife in conjunction with the cane. I now have the license, but still keep a can and knife handy. A cane or heavy end of a pool que could have been used to stop the UFC boy fairly easily. Crack them on the knee or lower leg, then when they keel over grabbing the bashed member deliver another blow to the neck or head as it would then be an easy target. End of problem. I've used this and know it works (PCP freaks and the like excepted).



I'm not 2nd guessing him, and years ago would have probably done the same thing. The whole situation is a sad state of affairs, and I wish it had never happened. Always keep your options open.



jim

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Sealgar wrote:

Not to give the wrong opinion of myself, but having options to shooting is always a good thing. While I was awaiting the arrival of my CCW renewal, I went about my busness knowing that I can defend myself against most known credible threats. I learned cane fighting, and the use of a knife in conjunction with the cane. I now have the license, but still keep a can and knife handy. A cane or heavy end of a pool que could have been used to stop the UFC boy fairly easily. Crack them on the knee or lower leg, then when they keel over grabbing the bashed member deliver another blow to the neck or head as it would then be an easy target. End of problem. I've used this and know it works (PCP freaks and the like excepted).



I'm not 2nd guessing him, and years ago would have probably done the same thing. The whole situation is a sad state of affairs, and I wish it had never happened. Always keep your options open.

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Excellent points, Sealgar. Lots of people like to whine that a potential assailant is too big, too young, too strong...etc. But a thinking person can sometimes (not always) deal effectively with a bigger/stronger/younger threat.

Unfortunately, non-thinking person tend to rely on the ole pistola to resolve potential threats. This is particularly ironticwhen they put themselves into the the threatening situations in the first place.

In this case there was drinking going on. Apparently, LOTS of drinking. That changes the whole picture. Drinking +Holiday Celebration +Arguing+ Gun(s) is a bad recipe.

Malec was a dope. Actually, he still is. Of course Eilers was a dope too. But he ain't anymore...

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Another incident. Back around 1980, I was working secuirty at nights while attending college. I was a patrol Sgt. and made all the escort runs for my company in Austin, Texas. The escorts consisted of me following the 6th St.restaurant owners to the bank to make their nightly deposits of several thousand dollars. They drove their cars, and I followed in the company patrol car. Prior to these contracts, several of them had been robbed, hence my then current duty.



One night I was following the (biggest account)owner's daughter and she jetted away from me in her sports car and got on IH35 headed north to the bank. I was catching up when two guys in a car cut me off and began to slow down. Not a problem. I sped up went around and got in behind the girl again just in time for the exit. They took offense to this and came up alongside of me cursing, making threats and trying to get me to pull over. I hadn't cut them off, just passed them up, so I was a little suspicious all the while realizing that this might just be an alcohol induced incident. I slid the 12 Ga. pump barrel up to rest on the door top at the bottom of the window and continued driving. The fools didn't even notice what I'd done and continued their antics. They swerved at me a couple of times, so I made up my mind that if they followed me to the bank and got out of their car, I was going to put them on the ground and have them arrested. I lucked out and came upon a police car waiting at an intersection for the light to change. The drunks caw the popo and pealed off leaving me to complete my escort. They were lucky it was me, as a couple of the other escort drivers would have been scared at that point in time and things might have gotten noisey.

I reported this to my supervisor and he used me as an example to the othersof not losing one's cool by getting angry or scared and doing something stupid and expensive. While these cops didn't like secuirty guards, they disliked robbers more, and chances are I would have had little trouble not getting charged, and others of us had not gotten into trouble shooting burglars, robbers and the like.

Another time, a gal tried to run over me while I was on duty and I reported it. The cop chewed me out for not shooting her as she was coming at me, but told me not to shoot after she missed but was leaving. See why I try to avoid using deadly force?

Maintain your cool if at all possible.



jim

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TheMrMitch wrote:

Disparity. At my age and condition one does NOT have to be armed for me to use deadly force in protecting myself.

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My sentiments exactly..

I've logged enough lumps, Given and taken to say I've nothing else to prove in a situation like described in the OP, The only thing I can say I would have done differently, is order someone standing by to get 911 on the phone NOW!!! How the rest of the scenario would have played out would be dependant on the aggressors actions.

#1 Don't come inside and wreck hy home!

#2 Don't threaten me on my property and/or in my home!

#3 Don't say cmon ole man lemme see what you got! with the threat of whoopin my ass.

I don't have money to be throwin around for anyone elses causes, what little I have ,my family comes first. But Given what info i've read, I don't see that your brother is guilty of any wrong doings, and I wish him and your family the best.

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Carnivore wrote:

TheMrMitch wrote:

Disparity. At my age and condition one does NOT have to be armed for me to use deadly force in protecting myself.

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My sentiments exactly..

I've logged enough lumps, Given and taken to say I've nothing else to prove in a situation like described in the OP, The only thing I can say I would have done differently, is order someone standing by to get 911 on the phone NOW!!! How the rest of the scenario would have played out would be dependant on the aggressors actions.

#1 Don't come inside and wreck hy home!

#2 Don't threaten me on my property and/or in my home!

#3 Don't say cmon ole man lemme see what you got! with the threat of whoopin my ass.

I don't have money to be throwin around for anyone elses causes, what little I have ,my family comes first. But Given what info i've read, I don't see that your brother is guilty of any wrong doings, and I wish him and your family the best.

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+1

I'm a disabled veteran. if someone threatens the lives of me or my family, we have a problem. I can't run (as a deputy suggested at a Neighborhood Watch meeting), but Ican shoot well. I will protect my family to the best of my ability.

Semper Paratus
msc

So what should he have done?

I looked at the page to learn how the case was going. It says the man was convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to 5.5 years.

I did not learn all the details of the case. For my own knowledge, What is it that the man should have done differently? For one, i do not drink, but i do not know what degree that played on the conviction.

There was a similar story from texas, where people suggested the man should have tried harder to stay apart from the violent man, but not sure that matters in this case.

Was there any statement by the judge explaining where the man failed to act properly, or did they just not believe his account of what happened?

well...

Well ive got one thing to say after seeing all the back and fortch and listening to both sides make goo dpoints and i think there is one thing we can ALL come to an agreement on...

That HankT dude is really sure of himself, to the point where he comes off as a pompous arrogant jackass.

HTPPSDFU2 etc etc

claytron said:

well ive got one thing to say after seeing all the back and fortch and listening to both sides make goo dpoints and i think there is one thing we can all come to an agreement on...

That hankt dude is really sure of himself, to the point where he comes off as a pompous arrogant jackass.

Htppsdfu2 etc etc

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lol.

From just reading the OP's account, it sounds like the man deserved to be shot and this world is just a little less dangerous now. I am sick and tired of violent, angry, mean people out there bullying and inflicting pain and suffereing upon others at their own whim. This is one important purpose of what a gun is for in my opinion. Its to be an equalizer. Its so the frail, the female, the elderly and the young can better protect themselves against others whether they are armed or not.

Hank's postulate is junk. Though at times it might be bad legal stratagy to shoot an unarmed person, sometimes it is seriously bad stratagy to not shoot an unarmed person. I feel sorry for any woman caught alone in her home by an unarmed intruder who wishes to take Hank's advice to heart. She should just ask the guy if he intends to attack and rape her or if he is only interested in her jewelry before she decides to arm herself and shoot him.

MK said:

I feel sorry for any woman caught alone in her home by an unarmed intruder who wishes to take Hank's advice to heart. She should just ask the guy if he intends to attack and rape her or if he is only interested in her jewelry before she decides to arm herself and shoot him.

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Oh, the gun would be pointed at him before I asked any questions. I don't care if I can't see any weapons on him. By breaking into my house he's shown that he's dangerous. I can't remember where I read it right now, but I did read a cop-related online magazine that showed stats for how many burglars are armed with some sort of weapon. (Most.)

And I'd do my best to make him get on the ground/floor or seated somehow that it'd be difficult to attack me.
Then I'd pick up one of the portable phones & call police.

They can come in however the burglar did, unless I can see him and unlock the door at the same time to make it easier on them. Or maybe when they arrive, he can go open the door and walk out to meet them, with me behind him a discreet distance (once I'm sure the cops have him).

Living in the same town this happened in I find it difficult to believe he was convicted. Such a huge disparity of force. I can only think there were some lies involved by those related to the attacker and alcohol being a large influence on the jury.