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Thread: New to all types of carry

  1. #1
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    Hello all, I apologize for posting this in an open carry forum, however I don't really know where else to ask.

    I live in Cullman, and work closely and often alongside with our city, county and state police in my line of work (medic) and the last thing I wish to do is to become a nuisance to my friends and even more so be on the wrong side of an officialpolice visit.

    Recently I started opting to carry for the first time. I have acquired a CCW permit and keep that on person. My main concern is with some of the lettering on my permit itself. Besides stating that the permit does not allow for open carry, it states that no concealed weapon may be carried into a "public building" whether it be city, state or federal etc. My main question is to what constitutes a public building. I would assume anything built and supported by tax dollars such as libraries, post office, court house etc. But what about places of business such as walmart, or the mall or any other location which the public visits but yet has no posting to say no firearms are allowed?

    I would rather by all means carry open, and think when I fully understand where I can carry concealed first then may move into open. I was not raised as a sloucher with loose shirt tails, thus I prefer the dress right and dress tight stature and would rather clip n carry openly. But suppose thats for another post later.

    Idid ask a officer while he was visiting the ambulance service one night about OCand he really frowned and squirmed when I asked about it being possible. When I let him see the try-fold pdf file about the AG's view admitted while it may be legal (not saying it was), I would more than likely be seeing quite a few police complaints when I visit places etc. Again not wishing to become a nuisance to my police friends I let it go.

    Thanks for any insight and if these questions would be better asked in another area, please point me in the correct direction.

    Kenny

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    Alabama does not have a CCW permit. It's a 'pistol permit'.

    If the permit is qualified, and prohibits carrying into a 'public building', than I would ask the Sheriff to clarify. It wouldn't include Wal-Mart though.

    Whatever location restrictions were on your pistol permit would not apply to OC, however, as the permit only pertains to CC.

    Anyways, the location restrictions are something you need to ask your Sheriff about, because he is the one who sets them for each permit.

    Otherwise, Alabama has essentially zero prohibited places. Check Code of Alabama 13A-11-50 and up. The only prohibited place by statue is a public gathering, but it's very narrowly defined, and not what someone would generally consider a public gathering.

    Also remember that Alabama has full preemption for handgun laws. No locality can make any rules, ordinances, etc, that are stronger than state law, even on discharge (and state law is virtually nonexistent). If you work for the city they can't even prevent you from carrying on the job.

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    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    Alabama does not have a CCW permit. It's a 'pistol permit'.

    If the permit is qualified, and prohibits carrying into a 'public building', than I would ask the Sheriff to clarify. It wouldn't include Wal-Mart though.

    Whatever location restrictions were on your pistol permit would not apply to OC, however, as the permit only pertains to CC.

    Anyways, the location restrictions are something you need to ask your Sheriff about, because he is the one who sets them for each permit.

    Otherwise, Alabama has essentially zero prohibited places. Check Code of Alabama 13A-11-50 and up. The only prohibited place by statue is a public gathering, but it's very narrowly defined, and not what someone would generally consider a public gathering.

    Also remember that Alabama has full preemption for handgun laws. No locality can make any rules, ordinances, etc, that are stronger than state law, even on discharge (and state law is virtually nonexistent). If you work for the city they can't even prevent you from carrying on the job.
    All you have to do now is convince them of that

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    Convince who of what?

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    I live not too far away from Cullman and I go up there a couple of times a month, sometimes more. I have carried openly through several of the stores and restaurants in Cullman with no issue. I can't say that I was ever noticed by a LEO, but the general population didn't care and more than a couple did notice.

    I think you're on the right track. Get comfortable with the gun, know the specifics of the law and keep a good appearance and you'll be fine. You may get a few questions, but that's part of OC... You become an ambassador for the gun community, like it or not.

    To avoid any possible problems I avoid going into any public buildings while carrying (open or concealed). In this case that means any buildingthat is not owned by an individual or corporation, including libraries or post offices. It may not be explicitely covered, but I don't have any extra time or money to prove it.

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    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    Convince who of what?
    Sorry, should have clarified.

    All bigken462 has to do now is convince his local law enforcement authorities that he can carry openly anywhere except the well defined "public gathering".

    I know its the law, you know its the law. I suspect law enforcement knows its the law as well. But we also know they don't always let a little thing like the law get in their way.

    Somehow I don't think I'd get very far into the courthouse OC'ing.

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    Daddyo wrote:
    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    Convince who of what?
    Sorry, should have clarified.

    All bigken462 has to do now is convince his local law enforcement authorities that he can carry openly anywhere except the well defined "public gathering".

    I know its the law, you know its the law. I suspect law enforcement knows its the law as well. But we also know they don't always let a little thing like the law get in their way.

    Somehow I don't think I'd get very far into the courthouse OC'ing.
    Funny you say that. Afaik, you should be able to carry into a courthouse. I suppose restricting carrying in a courtroom, while not against state law, could get you in trouble for contempt. But in a courthouse it should be fine.

    The courthouse in my area currently has a metal detector/guards at the entrance. I'm planning on tracking down whoever is in charge of security and finding out how they can legally prevent someone from carrying a handgun.

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    Thanks guys for your post. I'm kinda leaning to going to speak to Sheriff Roden about my concerns. I feel he's an honest person, but also know which direction he may lean. I understand from a law enforcement standpoint why some would not wish there being numerous calls or complaints for them to have to deal with. I wish I could afford to spend a few bucks to get an attorney to give me some guidance, however that would be foolish on my end right now financially.

    I think for now as I mentioned I will continue to do my homework on self defense, maybe look into some self defense or handgun training if there is such. I'm not the type of person that would wish to pull a sidearm to make a threat. But its my opinion that if the situation is severe enough to warrant pulling a sidarm, then one should not have any reason not to follow through, otherwise keep the thing in its holster till you intend to use it.

    I have to admit it feels damn awkward carrying a sidearm as I have never done so before. It will take some getting used to and I welcome your comments on how I should proceed about acquiring some good training other than simple range exercises.

    Thanks,

    Kenny

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    I wouldn't even worry to much on the matter Kenny, just follow the law in the pamphlet they gave you when you got your permit and you should be fine, as far as OC goes, LE frowns on that, and that is one of the many reasons for this site. Thank goodness we have this site, where else would we turn for help, a lawyer, I think not

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    I really don't know where the 'OC is frowned on' comes from. We've had two people harassed for OC in what? 2 or 3 years? Alabama is a pretty big state so a few untrained officers are sure to slip through.

    I often carry unconcealed (although, mostly in the winter) in Lee and Tallapoosa County and don't have any problems...

  11. #11
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    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    I really don't know where the 'OC is frowned on' comes from. We've had two people harassed for OC in what? 2 or 3 years? Alabama is a pretty big state so a few untrained officers are sure to slip through.

    I often carry unconcealed (although, mostly in the winter) in Lee and Tallapoosa County and don't have any problems...
    I Kurt , I believe we don't hear of the legal OC's on here, some people might OC, research the law themselves, and probably know nothing of this site for one reason or the other. I don't think we here about every single arrest for lawfully OC'ing, do you believe that?

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    Hello all,

    New to this site, although great site, I feel it's terrible that we've come to where we are as a nation that sites as this one are needed. I'm so tired of all this, you know?. It's my right to own & bear weapons, if someone doesn't like the laws/rights, then by all means, leave @ your descretion -- though preferalby ASAP, LEO included!

    I have never attempted to OC but may sometime, but would/couldn't do that when my child or wife were with me. Which is also sad. I would be concerned that some ego, crazy LEO would go nuts & they'd be harmed. I don't know about all of you, but LEO here in central AL seem to all have the POWER complex going on.I've lived in B'ham area for 10 yrs now and I have serveral stories of bad cops. I worked @ the PD as dispatcher in my hometown several years ago and all the officers there were good, very likable guys, however that may've all changed now.

    One thing I've always been confused about though. I can OC, by law, basically anytime I wish, but I can't OC in my vehicle w/o a permit? So, by this, I also have to get a permit for my weapons when I go hunting? What IS the TRUTH?

    Regards!

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    Daddyo wrote:
    Somehow I don't think I'd get very far into the courthouse OC'ing.
    From what I understand, many local courthouses prohibit you from bring ANY weapon into the building by order from the district court's. But even without the court orders a public courthouse would almost certainly fall under the "public buildings" exclusion of your CCW permit. I guess they took the extra step of issuing court orders specific to those buildings to eliminate any possibility of OC as well. As a disclaimer let me say that this is information obtained from security personnel at my local court house and I have not researched it beyond that point.

  14. #14
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    A permit is only required to carry a handgun in a vehicle. Long-arms are not restricted. Long-arms aren't protected by preemption statutes, however, so local laws may apply.

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    Per Alabama State Law 11-80-11, as found within the Official Code of Alabama 1975, Long Arms are protected under full preemption. In a similiar vein, Pistols are solely protected per 11-45-1.1.

    It is perfectly legal in Alabama to carry a Long Arm openly, not concealed, while in Public just as it is to do so with a Pistol.


    I encourage everyone on this blog to read OPEN CARRY OF A UNLICENSED UNCONCEALED PISTOLwhich is located under a different topic header on the Alabama page.


    Please do not get upset about carrying a Firearm into a Courthouse... I am only showing you just how laid back Alabamas Firearms Laws are. I understand, as much as anyone, that there may be things one should not do even if they may do them. However, what is Law is Law... and this is the way it has been in Alabama for years.



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    I'm aware of 11-80-10, but it isn't as strongly worded as the handgun preemption, nor have I been able to find any court cases using the statute.

    Since it pertains to gun shows, it may be interpreted by a judge and jury to not apply to normal carry, especially since there is another part of the code specifically addressing the carry of handguns...

    Let's just say.. it's not as strong. So yes.. handguns are definitely pre-empted, and other firearms are.. very likely as well.

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    Thank you for your understanding on this issue.

    I have reviewed numerous Preemption Statutes, and Alabama Codes 11-80-11 and 11-45-1.1are similiar to, or stronger than, many other States Statutes that preempt the matter pertaining to Firearms.

    As per 11-80-11(a) the Law reads... [that]No County or Municipal Corporation, Instrumentality, or Political Subdivision thereof, by ordinance, resolution, or other enactment, shall regulate in any manner gun shows, the possession, ownership, transport, carrying, transfer, sale, purchase, licensing, registration or use of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, firearms dealers, or dealers in firearm components...; [however],... [Counties, Municipal Corporations, Instrumentalities, and Political Subdivisions may regulate the discharge of Firearms, except Pistols, the sales and use taxation of Firearms, except Pistols, and regulate zoningordinances pertaining to Firearms to be soldfrom businesses, except Pistols]... so as long as the three close range narrow exceptions apply evenly to Firearms as they would in other product or to any other business.

    I agree with your comment on Alabama Law 11-45-1.1; which, is why in the above explantion I included the phrase... 'except Pistols'.

    It would be Lawful in Auburn, Alabama to discharge a Pistol for practice so as long as the discharge of that Pistol is done so safely per Alabama Law 11-45-1.1, notwithstanding any Local Firearm Discharge Ordinance to the contrary. Even in the City, The City itself is preempted over this matter as well. Furthermore, if you work for the City of Auburn, then, you can bring a Pistol to work, worn openly, while on the job, and Auburn, Alabama would be without authority to stop you from doing so, even if there are work safety policies against it, per State preemption... so as long as you are not a prohibited person.

    Almost every other State that I know of uses verbiage that is similiar to 11-80-11 when, and if, that State whould choose to preempt Firearms to the State. Additionaly, every other Southern Statehas language that is almost exactly the same as what one may find when they review 11-80-11 and 11-45-1.1.

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    Right. Only the state can regulate discharge of handguns. Localities can still regulate discharge of other firearms, but that's about it.

    Of course, as I said before, I've yet to see a case argued under 11-80. What is in the statues may or may not hold up in court. So carrying a longarm is riskier than a handgun just in terms of 'ground that hasn't yet been tread in court'.

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    kurtmax,
    Long-arms aren't protected by preemption statutes, however, so local laws may apply.

    Don't forget the preemption contained in our constitution:


    SECTION 36

    Construction of Declaration of Rights.
    That this enumeration of certain rights shall not impair or deny others retained by the people; and, to guard against any encroachments on the rights herein retained, we declare that everything in this Declaration of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate.


    It's pretty clear to me that the people of Alabamaintended the right to bear arms and all the otherrights enumerated in the Declaration of Rightsto be exempt from any kind of government infringement. The constitution preempts all the laws, and forever is a lot longer than a mere hundred years or so.

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