Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Milwaukee Security Guard Has a Real Gun

  1. #1
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    Not a good idea to bring a BB gun toagunfight. Mr. Reed has now learned that lesson. Mr. Mason? We'll have to see...

    Good on the security guard. I wonder if he somehow figured out that therobbershad only BB guns? That would be soooo interesting.

    What would an average LAC do if they were being stuck up, with the bad guy getting the drop on him, and the LAC noticed that the muzzle of the gunhad a very very tiny hole.....





    2 shot during robbery had BB guns
    DA will review incident Monday
    By Ryan Haggerty of the Journal Sentinel


    Posted: Jun. 7, 2009

    The two men who were shot by a security guard while trying to rob a Milwaukee check cashing business last week were armed with realistic-looking BB guns, according to a Police Department spokeswoman.

    Ronald X. Reed Jr., 24, was shot in the back and died at the scene, police said. His cousin, 22-year-old Vidal D. Mason, was shot in the abdomen.

    The BB guns "looked very much like authentic weapons," police spokeswoman Anne E. Schwartz wrote in an e-mail.

    The men also used BB guns while committing a string of armed robberies in 2005, court records show.

    Reed and Mason were wearing masks when they entered Check Into Cash, 3906 N. 76th St., on Wednesday afternoon and ordered everyone to the floor, including the armed guard, police said at the time.

    One cousin told the other to shoot the guard, who got up and fired shots at both men, police said.

    Reed ran from the store and collapsed in a nearby alley. Mason also ran and turned up at a hospital a short time later.

    The preliminary investigation suggests the guard, who has not been identified, was properly licensed to carry a gun on the job, police said.

    The guard is employed by Pratt Security and Investigations. The company's president, John Pratt, said the company and its employees have the proper licenses and permits. He declined to answer questions about the robbery and shooting.

    The Milwaukee County district attorney's office will review the incident Monday, Schwartz said.

    Reed and Mason also were armed with BB guns when they committed five armed robberies together over four days in 2005, targeting people returning home late at night on the city's west side, according to a criminal complaint filed against them.

    Both were convicted in 2006 of two counts of armed robbery, according to online court records.

    Reed was sentenced by Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Elsa Lamelas to three years in state prison - with credit for 263 days for time served - and five years of extended supervision, the court records show.

    He was released from prison Aug. 26, according to the state Department of Corrections.

    Lamelas sentenced Mason to two years in state prison - with credit for 236 days for time served - and five years of extended supervision, according to court records.

    Mason was released from prison Aug. 21, 2007, according to the Department of Corrections.



    http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/47166817.html


  2. #2
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Gone
    Posts
    3,958

    Post imported post

    The preliminary investigation suggests the guard, who has not been identified, was properly licensed to carry a gun on the job, police said.

    The guard is employed by Pratt Security and Investigations. The company's president, John Pratt, said the company and its employees have the proper licenses and permits. He declined to answer questions about the robbery and shooting.

    RIGHTS DO NOT REQUIRE PERMITS! Wisconson is an open carry state.


  3. #3
    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Saint Gabriel, Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    1,222

    Post imported post

    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    The preliminary investigation suggests the guard, who has not been identified, was properly licensed to carry a gun on the job, police said.

    The guard is employed by Pratt Security and Investigations. The company's president, John Pratt, said the company and its employees have the proper licenses and permits. He declined to answer questions about the robbery and shooting.

    RIGHTS DO NOT REQUIRE PERMITS! Wisconson is an open carry state.
    So What? Louisiana is an Open Carry State too but here contract security officers have to have licenses from the State and if they are armed they have to pass a firearms class which involves range time. Pretty much the same everywhere. Get over it.
    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Post imported post

    yale wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    The preliminary investigation suggests the guard, who has not been identified, was properly licensed to carry a gun on the job, police said.

    The guard is employed by Pratt Security and Investigations. The company's president, John Pratt, said the company and its employees have the proper licenses and permits. He declined to answer questions about the robbery and shooting.

    RIGHTS DO NOT REQUIRE PERMITS!** Wisconson is an open carry state.
    So What?* Louisiana is an Open Carry State too but here contract security officers have to have licenses from the State and if they are armed they have to pass a firearms class which involves range time. Pretty much the same everywhere. Get over it.
    No such rules in MI.

    The individual must be licensed to carry concealed, but if they're carrying openly, then they're good to go.

    If I were working security though, I'd make sure my employer was bonded and likely myself as well.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    374

    Post imported post

    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    yale wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    The preliminary investigation suggests the guard, who has not been identified, was properly licensed to carry a gun on the job, police said.

    The guard is employed by Pratt Security and Investigations. The company's president, John Pratt, said the company and its employees have the proper licenses and permits. He declined to answer questions about the robbery and shooting.

    RIGHTS DO NOT REQUIRE PERMITS! Wisconson is an open carry state.
    So What? Louisiana is an Open Carry State too but here contract security officers have to have licenses from the State and if they are armed they have to pass a firearms class which involves range time. Pretty much the same everywhere. Get over it.
    No such rules in MI.

    The individual must be licensed to carry concealed, but if they're carrying openly, then they're good to go.

    If I were working security though, I'd make sure my employer was bonded and likely myself as well.
    Even if the state does not require certain things, the company very well may. Based on the quote from the president, it appears that corporate policy dictates certain requirements for its employees to be armed.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Gone
    Posts
    3,958

    Post imported post

    yale wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    RIGHTS DO NOT REQUIRE PERMITS!
    So What? Get over it.
    You are a glaring example of the problem regarding free exercise of the 2nd Amendment. What part of 'Shall not be infringed' escapes you?

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Delaware County, New York, USA
    Posts
    276

    Post imported post

    Requiring a security guard to be trained in a similar way to a police officer (in terms of firearms training) is not an infringement on rights. Most professions are held to higher standards than if a civilian does the equivalent activity.

    For example, a commercial driver's license, a teaching license, food vendor's license, auto repair shop license, these are all activities that could be done reasonably safely by an unlicensed individual, but the training and license professionalize the activity.

    In terms of rights, the main difference between an armed individual and a security guard is that an armed individual has the right to protect himself and family, a security guard is obligated to protect patrons and employees of the establishment.


  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    2,615

    Post imported post

    I suspect that anytime you have a gun pointed at you, real or BB, the end of that barrel is going to look like a Howitzer.

  9. #9
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    2,043

    Post imported post

    Interesting topic, for two reasons....

    1) I owned both a Daisy BB Pistol and Daisy BB rifle growing up (yes it really was rifled, and no I never shot my, or anyone's eye or window out :P)

    And I can tell you even back in the 80s and 90s, the BB pistols still looked like real guns, made of metal and of considerable heft with no special "faux" markings like easily removed orange rings or stickers. No one who isn't familiar with firearms would know the difference. Even if you got a good look at the muzzle diameter, if you weren't very familiar with .22 caliber firearms, you would think it was one.


    2) Most of my adult career had been as commercial or contract security before I joined The Coast Guard.

    Each are treated completely different as far as licensing goes in most states, but I can tell you that the requirement most of the time is that the security company be licensed, bonded and insured. Most states have no such requirement for the individual security guards working for the company unless the contract had special requirements.

    Most company's require a certain level of training for any employee that is going to carry pepper spray, baton, stun gun, firearm and the like, for their own insurance and liability purposes, even if the state itself does not require such training. Because security guards commonly have no more LE authority than the average citizen, they are treated the same as a citizen...If you could carry such an item as a citizen, you can also carry such an item as security guard with no special license.

    Some states like Florida require a special license to carry a weapon for "work" purposes, even if you could have carried that weapon as a normal citizen.


    I never worked as contract security in WI. (for obvious reasons) so I am not sure of their exact requirements, but I can tell you when it comes to requirements for security, armed and unarmed, contract and corporate, across the US, its about as uniform as the CC/OC laws. :quirky




  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Delaware County, New York, USA
    Posts
    276

    Post imported post

    In New York, armed security must be trained. If they are off duty/retired LE, they can use that training, if they are not LE, they musttake a 47 hour firearms class, modeled after the police academy course.

    The rationale is that a person upholding the law/protecting civilians with a firearm needs to be trained properly, whether they are being paid by the police deparmtment or the local bank.

    Many armed civilians who carry only to protect themselves/their family have taken the course as well. If it is given by a company with ties to the local PD, the attendees may get to use the local police range, which may include a trip through 'Hogan's Alley.'

    Highly recommended.



  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    107

    Post imported post

    License? Bonded? Insured? Bottom line LIABILITY! CYA! A good or bad attorney can and probably will make a lot of trouble here. Oh, and good job by the guard. How the hell was he supposed to know these clowns were carrying BB guns?

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    661

    Post imported post

    Even here in the great state of Arizona, security guards must be licensed armed or not. Armed guards require an special license that shows they have passed the state requirements for armed guards.

    The issue here is not one of self defense, rather being hired out to use deadly force to defend someone else's assets or personnel.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    2 shot during robbery had BB guns
    DA will review incident Monday
    By Ryan Haggerty of the Journal Sentinel


    Posted: Jun. 7, 2009

    The two men who were shot by a security guard while trying to rob a Milwaukee check cashing business last week were armed with realistic-looking BB guns, according to a Police Department spokeswoman.

    Ronald X. Reed Jr., 24, was shot in the back and died at the scene, police said. His cousin, 22-year-old Vidal D. Mason, was shot in the abdomen.

    The BB guns "looked very much like authentic weapons," police spokeswoman Anne E. Schwartz wrote in an e-mail.

    The men also used BB guns while committing a string of armed robberies in 2005, court records show.

    Reed and Mason were wearing masks when they entered Check Into Cash, 3906 N. 76th St., on Wednesday afternoon and ordered everyone to the floor, including the armed guard, police said at the time.

    One cousin told the other to shoot the guard, who got up and fired shots at both men, police said.

    Reed ran from the store and collapsed in a nearby alley. Mason also ran and turned up at a hospital a short time later.

    The preliminary investigation suggests the guard, who has not been identified, was properly licensed to carry a gun on the job, police said.

    The guard is employed by Pratt Security and Investigations. The company's president, John Pratt, said the company and its employees have the proper licenses and permits. He declined to answer questions about the robbery and shooting.

    The Milwaukee County district attorney's office will review the incident Monday, Schwartz said.

    Reed and Mason also were armed with BB guns when they committed five armed robberies together over four days in 2005, targeting people returning home late at night on the city's west side, according to a criminal complaint filed against them.

    Both were convicted in 2006 of two counts of armed robbery, according to online court records.

    Reed was sentenced by Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Elsa Lamelas to three years in state prison - with credit for 263 days for time served - and five years of extended supervision, the court records show.

    He was released from prison Aug. 26, according to the state Department of Corrections.

    Lamelas sentenced Mason to two years in state prison - with credit for 236 days for time served - and five years of extended supervision, according to court records.

    Mason was released from prison Aug. 21, 2007, according to the Department of Corrections.


    http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/47166817.html
    At that point, the perp are history. If one robber told the other, "Shoot the guard" then the guard was certainly justified in using deadly force to defend himself.

    Bury one of the perps in the ground, bury the other in a cold dark cell for ever. His cousin was killed during the commision of a felony, therefore he should go down for first degree murder.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ramona, California, USA
    Posts
    6

    Post imported post

    Real or not, there is no time for a licensed armed-guard to be asking a criminal, is that a BB gun or what?Particularly,when time is of the essence, and immediate action is required to stopwhatis clearly posed as a life-threatening situation.Gee, it does not take much brains to figure that one out. Bravo Zulu to thearmed guard's quick reaction in his response to protect himself, and the life of others.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    204

    Post imported post

    The only thing that perplexes me, is the utter stupidity of telling your partner to shoot the guard, when you know he doesn't have a real gun and that will put the guard in a "Must fight for life" condition. If they were going toexecute someone, they would have made that person believe that he could surrender in safety. Ace

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hodgenville, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,261

    Post imported post

    The really bad part.....WHY were the perps free in the first place? No more problems with the dead one......but.....????

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    584

    Post imported post

    Ok, this abbreviation is really starting to bother me. What on earth does LAC stand for?

  18. #18
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    FunkTrooper wrote:
    Ok, this abbreviation is really starting to bother me. What on earth does LAC stand for?
    I've mostly used it as lawfully armed citizen (legally armed citizen). That's the sense meant in the OP.

    Have probably used it in the pastas law abiding citizen too.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,422

    Post imported post

    Source: http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/48089642.html
    June 15, 2009


    MILWAUKEE - The Milwaukee County District Attorney's Office has filed felony murder charges against a would-be robber who tried to hold up a Check Into Cash store on Milwaukee's north side last week.

    Prosecutors determined that a security guard there was justified in shooting and killing Vidal Mason's cousin and partner Ronald Reed. Now Mason is charged with Reed's murder.

    The criminal complaint doesn't allege that he shot Reed, but he's charged with taking part in a robbery that ended Reed's life. Prosecutors found that the security guard was justified in shooting the two armed and masked men who threatened to shoot the guard.

    "I think it's a big slap in the face to the family," said Reed's friend James Wheeler. "I think it's a big slap in the face to the amount of integrity that you would think this justice system is going to bring."

    According to the criminal complaint, the men were armed with handguns, Reed ordered the guard to the ground while pointing the gun at his head and chest. Witnesses say one of the suspects said, "Shoot the guard."

    That's when the security guard grabbed his pistol and shot Reed and then Mason. Police sources say all the shots were fired inside the store except one that didn't hit anybody. They also say the guard likely saved a lot of lives.

    Reed collapsed and died in an alley Mason survived. Reed's family says witnesses told them the guard chased him out of the store shooting and they want answers.

    "I think it was someone that got caught in the middle and made a poor decision," Wheeler added. "This guard made a really poor decision too because as fare as I'm concerned he chased my friend down and murdered him."

    Mason faces up to 35 years in prison if he is convicted.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Southeast, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    5,974

    Post imported post

    Always, always, always when one of these armed robbing, raping, or assaulting ********** gets legally tango uniformed by an LEO or citizen there is some jacka$$ who is a friend or relative of the perp talking about how the LEO or citizen made a bad decision or what good people the criminals were or something along those lines. It's a chicken and egg thing after a while. Are these people the product of an amoral/immoral community/culture/family or has their criminality turned their community/culture/family amoral/immoral.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  21. #21
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    deepdiver wrote:
    Always, always, always when one of these armed robbing, raping, or assaulting ********** gets legally tango uniformed by an LEO or citizen there is some jacka$$ who is a friend or relative of the perp talking about how the LEO or citizen made a bad decision or what good people the criminals were or something along those lines. It's a chicken and egg thing after a while. Are these people the product of an amoral/immoral community/culture/family or has their criminality turned their community/culture/family amoral/immoral.
    That's silly. It's not "always."

    It'sexasperating when it does happen. But it definitely doesn't "always" happen. You're generalizing wayyyyyyyyy too much.

    Not persuasive....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •