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Thread: Fairfax proof of residency

  1. #1
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    Filled for renewal5/8/09 did not give proof. 6/11/09 received suspending order.Need advice

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    Coolman wrote:
    Filled for renewal5/8/09 did not give proof. 6/11/09 received suspending order.Need advice
    Lets assume the suspending order was because you did not provide proof of residence.

    Options in no particular order:

    1. Go to court for an Ore Tenus hearing.

    1A. Hire an attorney and take him with you.

    2. Remonstrate with the county that you are filing for a renewal, as opposed to a new application, thus residency really shouldn't be an issue.

    3. Provide proof of residency. We've been through this before with this court. My understanding is that the judgeclaims it is ajudicial legal point that he has to establish that his court has jurisdiction. I have no idea whether he has to establish that. Separation of powers wouldseem to imply that the General Assembly could not set aside something like that. I don't know that anybody has ever been able to get the judge toissue the permit with the proof-of-residency unprovided.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Coolman wrote:
    Filled for renewal5/8/09 did not give proof. 6/11/09 received suspending order.Need advice
    Please post the suspending order - who was is signed by, a judge??

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    Judges name appears to be as JPK ?

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    I think his name is Stanley P. Klein .

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    Call Richard Gardiner, see http://www.lawyers.com/gardiner/- I think he already handling another similar matter and can advise you; meanhile hang tight and let the courthosue sweat!

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    Mike wrote:
    Call Richard Gardiner, see http://www.lawyers.com/gardiner/- I think he already handling another similar matter and can advise you; meanhile hang tight and let the courthosue sweat!
    He handled this for me. Sadly the appeal didn't go anywhere.

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    hsmith wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Call Richard Gardiner, see http://www.lawyers.com/gardiner/- I think he already handling another similar matter and can advise you; meanhile hang tight and let the courthosue sweat!
    He handled this for me. Sadly the appeal didn't go anywhere.
    OK, but what were your procedural facts - you showed a DL to the judge and he backed down, right?

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    Mike wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Call Richard Gardiner, see http://www.lawyers.com/gardiner/- I think he already handling another similar matter and can advise you; meanhile hang tight and let the courthosue sweat!
    He handled this for me. Sadly the appeal didn't go anywhere.
    OK, but what were your procedural facts - you showed a DL to the judge and he backed down, right?
    Yes, the judge accepted that as a "proof"

    I should FOIA my record and see if the DL was included...

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    In Hampton all I ever showed was my DL when I got my first permit and each renewal. Was never asked for any other proof of residency
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    ┬ž 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

    D. Any person 21 years of age or older may apply in writing to the clerk of the circuit court of the county or city in which he resides, or if he is a member of the United States Armed Forces, the county or city in which he is domiciled, for a five-year permit to carry a concealed handgun. There shall be no requirement regarding the length of time an applicant has been a resident or domiciliary of the county or city. The application shall be made under oath before a notary or other person qualified to take oaths and shall be made only on a form prescribed by the Department of State Police, in consultation with the Supreme Court, requiring only that information necessary to determine eligibility for the permit.
    Proof of residency is necessary to determine eligibility, as the Court can only issue to residents of the jurisdiction of the Court. Remember the mess we had trying to get a replacement CHP with a new address if we moved to another city/countyand our CHP was still unexpired?

    If you expect the Courts to play by the rules you need to be willing to play by the rules as well.

    Go reapply for your CHP.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Notice though, Skid, that the law only provides that you must provide the information, and that it must be submitted under oath. Hence, you're swearing that you're providing "truthful" information. Nowhere in the law does it require anyone to "prove" their residency. "Proof of residency" is extra-legal.

    Now that being said, I'm not sure what would be the big benefit of refusing to produce proof of residency, at least until such time as some Clerk causes some sort of problem that needs to be corrected. But in the normal, run-of-the-mill application process, I can't see any good reason to not just show one's driver's license and be done with it. I'm just saying, the law has no such requirement.

    ~ Boyd

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    Coolman & Boyd,

    I sit corrected. There is nothing on the application form stating that the Court needs to see your DL (or copy thereof) to establish residency. The applicant's statrement under oath/affirmation is the only requirement.

    Someone with the time and money, as well as standing, needs to take this to the Court of Appeals to settle the matter. Coolman - have you thought about contacting VCDL to see if they will take up the issue?

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Monday I will file for a hearing on FRI. at 10am. I will go pro say since money is tight and it appears that no lawyer has had any luck in the past on this issue. So any help as far as opinions or rulings or Laws would be appreciated.

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    Coolman wrote:
    Monday I will file for a hearing on FRI. at 10am. I will go pro say since money is tight and it appears that no lawyer has had any luck in the past on this issue. So any help as far as opinions or rulings or Laws would be appreciated.
    What needs to happen is for you to be denied - that way you can appeal to the Appeals court and get this quashed. So if you do request and get an ore tenus, just go in and explainthat you have provided all the information required and expect your pemit to be issued or denied.

    If you can get denied without the ore tenus, that would be great as well.

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    I have the forms. I am hoping to have heard this next Fri. If not the one after.

  17. #17
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    Mike wrote:
    Coolman wrote:
    Monday I will file for a hearing on FRI. at 10am. I will go pro say since money is tight and it appears that no lawyer has had any luck in the past on this issue. So any help as far as opinions or rulings or Laws would be appreciated.┬*
    What needs to happen is for you to be denied - that way you can appeal to the Appeals court and get this quashed.┬* So if you do request and get an ore tenus, just go in and explain┬*that you have provided all the information required and expect your pemit to be issued or denied.

    If you can get denied without the ore tenus, that would be great as well.
    +1 I maintain dual residency so this would make things easier on me. The fact that I pay taxes in both states should be more than enough proof.

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    Lost my hearing Chief Judge D.J. Smith wanted to hear zilch. Going to look into Appeal :X

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    Coolman wrote:
    Lost my hearing Chief Judge D.J. Smith wanted to hear zilch. Going to look into Appeal :X
    Good for you on appealing. Maybe we can get this solved once and for all.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  20. #20
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    Coolman wrote:
    Lost my hearing Chief Judge D.J. Smith wanted to hear zilch. Going to look into Appeal :X
    Stick to the guns!

    He needs to be put in place. He isn't a mini-dictator, even though he thinks he is.

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    The question would be, since the VA Supreme Court looks favorable on the citizens and dislikes judges making law from the bench, would it be worth contacting them? I forget the exact details of their position.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Coolman wrote:
    Lost my hearing Chief Judge D.J. Smith wanted to hear zilch. Going to look into Appeal :X
    Good for you on appealing. Now we can get this solved once and for all.
    Fixed that for you.

  23. #23
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    Law say I can only appeal to the Court of Appeals.

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