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Thread: New to OC, anything to ease nerves?

  1. #1
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    Hey all,

    As many of you have read my "Asking for Trouble" post, I am rather new to open carrying. My father has always been a rather staunch opponent of it, so until recently, I've just not done it.

    I own several handguns, and am very fond of our right to carry them openly... However, I have a large case of nerves when it comes to it (largely in part, I think, due to my dad and his stance on it and the constant lectures).

    I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions on how to ease the nerves, here. It's very rare (in fact, I can't say I've seen it here) to see anyone up here in Carson open carrying... I'm always afraid that people will think I'm "brandishing" (I had a friend who had to spend 20 minutes with an LEO due to this mistake) when I'm not, or get iffy and call the police because they are ignorant to the law.

    Now, I know that some of my concerns may be founded, as it is perfectly legal to carry, and it's been my understanding through communications from others that there is no "brandishing" laws (unless you're drunk, IIRC) in Nevada, either way, it's not a conversation I'd like to have, regardless of the law... But, I just feel "estranged" when I'm open carrying.

    I do suppose that one way to handle it would be to just go out and do it, and see what happens... Just curious what others have done to overcome similar issues.

    I am perfectly comfortable with the operation and carrying of a firearm, am just worried about potential trouble with carrying. I've already run into issues carrying at our local Wal-Mart - possibly a bad first experience to begin with...

    Perhaps I'm being silly for even thinking twice about it, but I like to feel comfortable wherever I'm at, and don't want to be looking over my shoulder every five minutes prepared to defend myself from the uneducated.

    Thanks in advance for the help, guys.

  2. #2
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    As for me, I still get butterflies every once in awhile. When I first started OCng on a regular basis, I would go to places that I frequently went. The grocery store (Smiths) was one place. Each time I went out, I would go to a different place. As with just about anything else, practice does work. Each time got easier. Also, I spent a lot of on this site reading the great insight, knowledge and experience that is available. Then I got very familiar with the law.For me, that offered the greatest amount of security. Welcome.

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    Well, experience is the best way. With time it will be come more comfortable. I found that walking around and exploring some city streets for a few hours was helpful.

    If you carry long enough and in enough places you are probably going to experience some law enforcement officers who will try and say that you are violating the law, and you will almost certainly be asked not to carry in many stores. Be prepared for these encounters, and make a plan for how to deal with these in a calm manner. The more of these encounters you experience, the better you'll be able to handle them.

    Also, you need to be very confident in your knoweldge of all of the applicable carry laws. This way you can not only be more confident but you can also more succesfully counter any attempts to by law enforcement officers to tell you that you are wrong, (and avoid breaking the law.)

    The more confident you look to others, the less out of place you will appear to them as well.



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    Be an educated gun owner, read every book you can get your hands on:

    - Buy all books by Massad Ayoob. He has great books on deadly force, conceal carry, open carry, how to deal with police. He is considered the foremost expert on deadly force, and is a former Police Captain, Prosecutor...

    - As someone said, look like a professional not a thug. Act like a gentleman and not an idiot I am the first one to say that thugs shouldn't have guns

    Best,

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    Pace wrote:
    - As someone said, look like a professional not a thug. Act like a gentleman and not an idiot I am the first one to say that thugs shouldn't have guns
    I'm going to have to disagree with you a little here. What constitutes a "thug"? A "thug" to one old lady on the street is "grandson" to another old lady on the street. Does a "thug" not have a right to defend himself and his family?

    Act like a gentleman and not an idiot, yes I agree (unless you're a girl, then act like a gentlewoman). It goes without saying that guns do not mix well with alcohol, drugs, stupidity, etc.

    Finally, what does "shall not be infringed" mean to you? Do I want felons with guns in their hands attempting to commit more felonies? NO. Do I want felons to be restricted from gun ownership after paying their debt to society? NO.

    I understand recidivism may be an issue, but I also believe that "shall not be infringed" means SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. The state has no authority to remove constitutional rights. What if a felon loses not only his right to bear arms, but also to due process? The next time he was a suspect, he just went straight to jail, no attorney, no speedy trial, no jury. I have to believe 99% of people would never tolerate such a cruelty. A right is a right.

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    I am not going to explain what a thug vs. a gentleman looks like. I am the first proponent of rights, if you read my messages.

    There is always a difference between the law, and acting smart and courteous. When someone is dressed and acts like an idiot while wearing a sidearm, it affects us all. If someone who is an idiot and dressed like one gets arrested for that, I am the first to defend their rights... but I wouldn't recommend my friend acting that way.

    For example, its legal for women in NYC to be topless in the streets, but I wouldn't want my daughter doing it

    BEst,

  7. #7
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    We're obviously on the same side here.

    It just seems lately that the more infringements I see upon the rights of citizens, the more I question the authority to take away those rights.

    Don't get me wrong, the restriction upon possession of firearms upon felons is not without merit. A criminal who commits armed robbery, murder, etc is probably not the guy any of us would like to see with a gun in his hand.

    However, it is still an infringement upon their second amendment right. If it is the intent of the public to punish these criminals for life, just say it that way and lock them up for life. You can restrict the right to bear arms while they're incarcerated.

    Consider NRS 205.445:
    NRS 205.445 Defrauding proprietor of hotel, inn, restaurant, motel or similar establishment. 1. It is unlawful for a person:
    (a) To obtain food, foodstuffs, lodging, merchandise or other accommodations at any hotel, inn, trailer park, motor court, boardinghouse, rooming house, lodging house, furnished apartment house, furnished bungalow court, furnished automobile camp, eating house, restaurant, grocery store, market or dairy, without paying therefor, with the intent to defraud the proprietor or manager thereof;
    (b) To obtain credit at a hotel, inn, trailer park, motor court, boardinghouse, rooming house, lodging house, furnished apartment house, furnished bungalow court, furnished automobile camp, eating house, restaurant, grocery store, market or dairy by the use of any false pretense; or
    (c) After obtaining credit, food, lodging, merchandise or other accommodations at a hotel, inn, trailer park, motor court, boardinghouse, rooming house, lodging house, furnished apartment house, furnished bungalow court, furnished automobile camp, eating house, restaurant, grocery store, market or dairy, to abscond or surreptitiously, or by force, menace or threats, to remove any part of his baggage therefrom, without paying for his food or accommodations.
    2. A person who violates any of the provisions of subsection 1 shall be punished:
    (a) Where the total value of the credit, food, foodstuffs, lodging, merchandise or other accommodations received from any one establishment is $250 or more, for a category D felony as provided in NRS 193.130. In addition to any other penalty, the court shall order the person to pay restitution.
    (b) Otherwise, for a misdemeanor.
    A few guys go out to eat, get drunk, and run up a bar tab of $300. In a frat-boy prank they decide to "chew and screw" and leave without paying the bill. These guys are guilty of a felony. Yes, they're criminals, but do they deserve to lose their right to protect themselves and their families from violent criminals FOREVER!?



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    First time, they would get a slap on the wrist...

    I dont know, I never committed a crime, my parents taught me certain values. I figure if you are running around drunk, stealing food etc, perhaps you aren't the type of person I'd trust with a gun. Just a thought.

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    If a person is found guilty of lying to police should he lose his right to remain silent?

    If a person is found guilty of doing drugs, should he lose his right not to be searched without a warrant?

    If a person is found guilty of libel, should he lose his right to free speech?

    Who decides what rights are OK to ignore and which are not? Whose rights to disregard and whose to respect?

    My only point is not that felons should all be handed a gun when they're released from prison, nor to minimize the seriousness of their crimes, but that a right is a right is a right. If it's ok to make concessions some of the time, what's the safeguard against abuse? Who gets the make that decision? The lawmakers we entrust to enact laws? They're already proven they can't be trusted - look at DC, Maryland, New York, New Jersey. If not them, them who?

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    I have to agree those are very good questions -- there is this assumption that just because someone is convicted of a crime, they are no longer valuable to society.

    That being said, the idea of felons being disenfranchised or suffering "civic death" has existed in this country since the start of the Country, and all 13 original states had this in their laws from the start. While its an interesting question, I am not sure its one to be brought up in gun rights; we have enough problems pushing this issue...

    ... would it be a good idea now to bring up that criminals should also carry guns, because some crimes aren't "so bad". While there is room for intellectual discourse on this topic, it would hurt the cause significantly if only because the framers of the Constitution believes in it also... but obviously because one side would frame the dialogue that we wanted a bunch of rapists to have guns!

    I think its an interesting topic, but .... (feel free to insert)

    Pace

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    I'm ok with that.....and agree there are more important (and non-controversial) issues that need addressed.

    That being said, it's one of those issues that, while I may be in favor personally of eliminating such an infringement, I will not actively fight to change it (unless I have nothing else left to fight for, yea right), but I will not actively support it as "acceptable".

  12. #12
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    Since this thread has kind of de-railed... Are there any rules or laws I should know about for open carrying? I know that if it's posted, it's definitely in your best interest not to carry there...

    Or even better, is there anything I should read up on prior to actively open carrying? I just want to make certain that I am familiar with all of the laws for carrying in Nevada, so I don't make a dummy mistake and get locked up.

    For my own clarification though, it IS okay to have your gun holstered on your person, open while driving, correct? The only stipulation I've seen on this is that there isn't supposed to be a bullet chambered at any time.

    I apologize if I come off as n00bish or stupid for all of the questions, I just want to be a safe, informed, open carrying individual.

  13. #13
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    Get a revolver. The traditional approach will make you feel more comfortable.

    (Its an oblique reference to another thread where he has only semi-autos on his list.)

    In all fairness to your question. Experience. Just keep doing it.

    Another tactic is to use the buddy system and OC with another or more experienced OCer. OC dinners are a great place to start.

    Just wait until you get a few favorable comments from private citizens you meet in public.

    Also, take the time to learn your rights in case of a police encounter. A good place to start is here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

    And here:

    http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/

    Once you have watched the videos, check out the website of the organization that produced the first video: http://www.flexyourrights.org/

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    There is no law against "one in the chamber" and it is the way I carry 100% of the time.

    As long as it is not concealed UPON your person you're good to go. This means in your pocket or in a briefcase or satchel carried by you. If it is under your seat, in the glove box, on the seat next to you, or on the dashboard, this is not considered concealed and is legal.

    Private property signs have no legal weight, but it you don't leave when asked you can be trespassed from private property.

    Do not carry upon the grounds of a school or child care facility (NRS 202.265).

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    saulsj wrote:
    Since this thread has kind of de-railed... Are there any rules or laws I should know about for open carrying? I know that if it's posted, it's definitely in your best interest not to carry there...

    Or even better, is there anything I should read up on prior to actively open carrying? I just want to make certain that I am familiar with all of the laws for carrying in Nevada, so I don't make a dummy mistake and get locked up.

    For my own clarification though, it IS okay to have your gun holstered on your person, open while driving, correct? The only stipulation I've seen on this is that there isn't supposed to be a bullet chambered at any time.

    I apologize if I come off as n00bish or stupid for all of the questions, I just want to be a safe, informed, open carrying individual.
    There is a pamphlet here:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum36/12253.html

    which summarizes most of the applicable laws. Importantly, click on the links in the pamphlet (CTRL+CLICK for the .doc version or just click for the PDF) and it will send you to the Nevada Legislature website where you can read the actual wording of the laws. I recommend that you read the actual wording of the laws and read them a few times. The Nevada legislature website also allows you to search the Nevada Revised Statutes and the Nevada Administrative Codes. If you are curious about the legality of any specific thing, you should search the websites to make sure no law exists to prohibit whatever it is you are thinking of.

    The rule about a round chambered only applies to rifles and shotguns and does not apply to handguns. Handguns can be fully loaded.

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    it's normal to have butterflies, howeveri have some personal rulesthathelp avoid confrontation from fellow citizens or worst LEO's.

    1. dress appropriately. I tend to dress away from clothing that stereostypes with someone as a troublemaker.

    2. be polite and courteous. nothing sets other people's minds at ease more than a polite person even if he has a gun.

    3. walk/talk in an appropriate manner.

    4. Act normal, don't mind your firearm. It's there it won't leave you.



    BTW i'm a long time lurker here and i open carry almost everywhere in vegas. Hello to everyone. :celebrate

  17. #17
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    saulsj wrote:

    The only stipulation I've seen on this is that there isn't supposed to be a bullet chambered at any time.





    I have to ask. Where did you get this info? Was it some gunstore clerk? Cop? Because it is just false.

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    saulsj wrote:
    The only stipulation I've seen on this is that there isn't supposed to be a bullet chambered at any time.
    only applies to riffles in the car. can't have a loaded riffle in the car.

  19. #19
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    When I first came onto this site one of the most helpful threads I read was about this topic. Basically it said that if you feel unsure, try oc'ing just the holster - empty. once you have done that and want to move up (so to speak) add your spare mag holder, then of course add the firearm.

    The other part of this is wear your gun around the house so that it feels at home there on your hip or under your shoulder however you carry.

    I read your post last week and wanted to say that being from LEO family your father has a different view about gun rights and our right to defend ourselves and others if needed. The one thing I will say to you, is when seconds matter, the police are only minutes away.

    Don't be afraid to carry, openly or cc. It is the ultimate form of patriotism and it says don't tread on me.... The point is to be confident when you do carry so would be attackers think again if they see that you are armed.

    My 2 cents.

  20. #20
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    k-lo wrote:
    it's normal to have butterflies, howeveri have some personal rulesthathelp avoid confrontation from fellow citizens or worst LEO's.

    1. dress appropriately. I tend to dress away from clothing that stereostypes with someone as a troublemaker.

    2. be polite and courteous. nothing sets other people's minds at ease more than a polite person even if he has a gun.

    3. walk/talk in an appropriate manner.

    4. Act normal, don't mind your firearm. It's there it won't leave you.



    BTW i'm a long time lurker here and i open carry almost everywhere in vegas. Hello to everyone. :celebrate
    Hi k-lo

    Welcome!

    I like your advice, especially #4. Know it's there, know how to use it, and pay it no attention. I also use this advice if someone asks me a vague question like "What's that?", acting like I have no idea why they're questioning me. It personally helps me create the mindset, as much for them as for myself, that wearing a gun is no more unusual than wearing shoes.

    Tim

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    timf343 wrote:
    k-lo wrote:
    it's normal to have butterflies, howeveri have some personal rulesthathelp avoid confrontation from fellow citizens or worst LEO's.

    1. dress appropriately. I tend to dress away from clothing that stereostypes with someone as a troublemaker.

    2. be polite and courteous. nothing sets other people's minds at ease more than a polite person even if he has a gun.

    3. walk/talk in an appropriate manner.

    4. Act normal, don't mind your firearm. It's there it won't leave you.



    BTW i'm a long time lurker here and i open carry almost everywhere in vegas. Hello to everyone. :celebrate
    Hi k-lo

    Welcome!

    I like your advice, especially #4. Know it's there, know how to use it, and pay it no attention. I also use this advice if someone asks me a vague question like "What's that?", acting like I have no idea why they're questioning me. It personally helps me create the mindset, as much for them as for myself, that wearing a gun is no more unusual than wearing shoes.

    Tim
    Tim,

    Thanks for the welcome. Exactly! right? Different people come up to you to question you about your gun. If you just act alittleindifferent (not ignorant) then you'll be fine. If you keep thinking about it then you'll act weird in front of people. IMHOI don't really need to fully explain myself to every civilian that questions me. The other day a woman sittingat a table next to mine during lunchtold me she was afraid of my gun. I just smiled at her and told her the gun's not coming out of the holster.



    Btw Tim, I like reading all your stories. You supplied a good part of confidence in my open carry.



    Karlo

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