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Thread: LEO encounter in Garden City

  1. #1
    Regular Member dfox's Avatar
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    My wife and I were walking our dog tonight at about 20:30 when a LEO passed by us, he stopped got out of his car and began walking towards us.

    Him: You do have CPL’s don’t you?
    Me: Why? What we are doing is legal in Michigan and yes we both have CPL's but we don't need them carrying this way.
    Him: Cover them up before we get 100 phone calls.
    Me: No, Open carry is legal in the state of Michigan as long as you can legally own a hand gun and here’s some information. ( I gave him a pamphlet)
    Him: I’ll have to check the law.
    Me: That should help (pointed to pamphlet), I also sent an email to Sherry Scott with the same info. (He took the pamphlet and did not look at it just kind of rolled it up in his hand).
    Him: Who is Sherry Scott?
    Me: Chief of Police for Garden City.
    Him: You mean Kim?
    Me: Sorry, you’re correct Kimberly Scott the Chief of Police.

    He did not ask for ID but did ask for my name; I told him my last name and informed him that I was not required to show ID unless I was suspected of a crime. He did not make us cover up our weapons. My wife and I did not stop walking and the whole encounter only lasted about 1 minute. He walked with us until we reached his car, he got in and drove away.

    We did have recorders however everything happened so fast that we did not have time to reach for them nor did we want to make any unusual movements. Live and learn.One of uswill carry it in there hand for now on. It was a decent encounter.

    I will follow up with theGarden City Chief of Police.
    Dave
    http://www.survivalfox.com/
    "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom". - John F. Kennedy, former U.S. President

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Sounds like you did good! And as he did not detain you per say just walked and discussed with you... sounds like a decent encounter!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Sounds like a fairly good encounter on your part, and at least the officer said he would check the law. Very professional to admit that he really didn't know. I don't like that he told you to cover them up, or even stopped for that matter.

    I'll mention it before Venator does :P You obviously know that you weren't required to give ID. I probably wouldn't have given my last name either but each person is free to make their own decision.

  4. #4
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Good on ya, mate! The officer asserted wrongful authority and you asserted your rights. It's unfortunate to STILL see LEOs wasting their time with law-abiding citizens, especially when there are so many criminals they could be looking out for and busting.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Where in Garden City?

  6. #6
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Overall, decent job. Not too shabby for the cop either if he didn't know about open carry.

    A lot of people would disagree with telling him your name, although that's really up to each person how they handle that request.

    The one thing I would suggest, is that you carry the recorder visibly on a string around your neck. I typically carry 2 this way. That way it's available instantly, and the police know right off the bat that you're going to record them. At Boston Market we saw first hand the difference in police conduct when they know they're being recorded vs when they don't. Another advantage is that you don't have to worry about a cop thinking you're reaching for a gun if you go to turn it on, because it's openly and obviously a recorder.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    dfox wrote:
    SNIP He did not ask for ID but did ask for my name; I told him my last name and informed him that I was not required to show ID unless I was suspected of a crime.
    As far as I know, you are not required to give your name unless:

    1. There is a stop-and-identify statute or ordinance in the jurisdiction, and

    2. The officer has reasonable suspicion of a crime.

    Brown vs Texas http://supreme.justia.com/us/443/47/case.html#52

    Hiibel vs 6th Judicial Court http://supreme.justia.com/us/542/177/case.html

    Kolender vs Lawson http://supreme.justia.com/us/461/352/case.html
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  8. #8
    Regular Member dfox's Avatar
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    dougwg wrote:
    Where in Garden City?
    On Farmington rd between pierce and bock.
    Dave
    http://www.survivalfox.com/
    "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom". - John F. Kennedy, former U.S. President

  9. #9
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Ok, wonder what they were doing on the side streets...as the mostly stick to surface streets.

    I was also wondering if you were walking around the bike/walk path around the city park.



    Thats a really good little park with lots for the kids. We really need to have a picnic there.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Good encounter, just one point to make, if you are going to carry a recorder have it running at all times. This allows you to record any event that occurs, whatever that happens to be, and without your having to remember to hit the record button.

    It's well worth the cost of a couple extra sets of batteries to have a complete recording of any encounter.

  11. #11
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:
    Good encounter, just one point to make, if you are going to carry a recorder have it running at all times. This allows you to record any event that occurs, whatever that happens to be, and without your having to remember to hit the record button.

    It's well worth the cost of a couple extra sets of batteries to have a complete recording of any encounter.
    I was going to post these exact same sentiments. Heck, go to Costco and pick up some Sanyo Eneloop rechargebles. They are a heck of a battery, light years ahead of those old school recharge's. If I leave, it's recording until I get home, then I stop it and erase the whole file Nifty!

  12. #12
    Regular Member dfox's Avatar
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    UPDATE:

    I contacted the Garden City Police department and was told that the watch commander for the officer that questioned me will call me back.

    I received a call back from the watch commander, I explained my concerns that his officers were not trained and that back in March I sent an email to the chief of police with the “LEO.doc” information in it.

    He told me that he had just talked to the chief and has the information that I had sent and they were going to train their staff again. He was aware of what happened last night and thanked me for the way I handled it. I told him the officer handled it professionally (no sirens or lights) not knowing the law and did not jump to conclusions but just needed to be trained on the Open carry laws. I also explained to him that his dispatch needs to be trained as well to handle these types of calls by asking some key questions. He agreed and was setting up training for all. He also mentioned that he follows some of the “Internet sites on open carry”. He said it’s unusual to see someone open carrying in the city and neither he nor the chief ever remember anyone doing it. I told him my wife and I open carry every night while walking the dog and have been for about 6 months now, and everywhere we go we open carry where legal.

    That is pretty much the gist of it. He was polite and professional in my opinion. I will contact them in about a month to see how it’s going and to re-enforce the issue.

    All in all I have to say it’s a good day!:celebrate
    Dave
    http://www.survivalfox.com/
    "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom". - John F. Kennedy, former U.S. President

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    Very good. Thank you for following up. I'm happy to hear the PD there says they will retrain. Great news!

  14. #14
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    Great news! Good job.

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