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Thread: Greenfield's proposed preemption violating ordiance in the news!

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    http://www.thenewsroom.com/details/3721352

    meeting Monday 15 June - are folks going to speak and tell the council about the preemption violation?

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    I dont live in Greenfield, but I will try to make it. I'll bring a few copys of 66.0409 to hand out.

    I'll post if I do make it.

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    If you are from Greenfield, please contact me immediately via private message.

    Everyone in Milwaukee and surrounding counties needs to attend and speak atthe meeting. This is the start of a complete ban.

    Greenfield City Hall, room 100
    7325 W. Forest Home Avenue
    Monday, June 15, 6:30 PM

    AGENDA FOR THE LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE MEETING TO BE HELD IN THE COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS, ROOM 100, OF THE GREENFIELD CITY HALL ON JUNE 15, 2009 AT 6:30 P.M.

    6. Discussion and decision to amend Chapter 10 of the Municipal Code to include the following state statutes regarding firearms: 167.31; 941.235; 941.237; 941.29; 948.60; & 948.605 (P.D.)(LC 6/15/09) (City interprets the law)

    7. Discussion and decision to amend Section 10.16 of the Municipal Code regarding Milwaukee County parks and parkways ordinance (P.D.)(LC 6/15/09) (City park ban)

    8. Review of existing ordinances/procedures for update and/or clarification as the need arises (Lubotsky, Pietrowski, Saryan) (Store ban)


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    Okay, I'm confused. Greenfield is going to pass an ordinance allowing business owners to do what they presently can do without an ordinance?

    Yes, I know that "No Guns" signs on businesses don't stop criminals and advertise to the criminals that everyone inside is disarmed for their convenience, but private property owners already have that power, misguided as it may be.

    Why would an ordinance be needed?

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    Statkowski wrote:
    Okay, I'm confused. Greenfield is going to pass an ordinance allowing business owners to do what they presently can do without an ordinance?

    Yes, I know that "No Guns" signs on businesses don't stop criminals and advertise to the criminals that everyone inside is disarmed for their convenience, but private property owners already have that power, misguided as it may be.

    Why would an ordinance be needed?
    greenfield will create a sigange statute - violating a sign = fine.

    private property owners cannot currently fine people who violate their rules of conduct - they can just eject them.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Statkowski wrote:
    Okay, I'm confused. Greenfield is going to pass an ordinance allowing business owners to do what they presently can do without an ordinance?

    Yes, I know that "No Guns" signs on businesses don't stop criminals and advertise to the criminals that everyone inside is disarmed for their convenience, but private property owners already have that power, misguided as it may be.

    Why would an ordinance be needed?
    You hit it on the head. We do not need any "new" law for this. And, as far as I can see, the "sign" could be any size, color, etc. So we have to inspect the place before we go in...

    With out any question in my mind, this new lawwould bea direct violation of 66.0409. I just don't understand how this could have even made it this far. We need the State AG to put a stop to this stuff!

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    Yes Aarons we need the AG to chime in! There are already many ordinances on the books that are in biolation. And it is hard as hell to get them removed without legal help! I've tried..... The only way we an prevent future pre-empted ordinances from being proposed and pre-empted ordinances that are being enforced from being enforced is through another AG memo or challange from some attornys. It sucks that there really aren't any attornys here in Wisconsin that are willing to challange these local ordinance.

    Also I saw the news clip last night as well. We need to flood FOX 6 with information that the ordinance is in violation of 66.0409. Thats the start we need when it comes to pre-emption violations. Then maybe legal help or a memorandum will come to us.



    Ben

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    Maybe inviting the AG to the city council meeting wouldn't be a bad idea.

    Any time you talk to an attorney and he says something like, "I am tied up right now can I get back to you or call me next week and I will see what I can do or let me get back to you." You can pretty much guess that he is not interested in helping or he is just a lazy attorney that simply wants to make his money through the good ole boy network at the local court house, which is usually the case.

    We may have to all come to terms with the fact that we may have to represent ourselves. It is doable.

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    Mike wrote:
    Statkowski wrote:
    Okay, I'm confused. Greenfield is going to pass an ordinance allowing business owners to do what they presently can do without an ordinance?

    Yes, I know that "No Guns" signs on businesses don't stop criminals and advertise to the criminals that everyone inside is disarmed for their convenience, but private property owners already have that power, misguided as it may be.

    Why would an ordinance be needed?
    greenfield will create a sigange statute - violating a sign = fine.

    private property owners cannot currently fine people who violate their rules of conduct - they can just eject them.
    It's a "gotcha fine", Miss a sign and you get fined!

    As it is if you miss a postage size sign banning firearms, then they tell you to leave...fine.

    With this, you miss a postage stamp size sign and you get slapped with a punishing fine!

    This is crap!



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    Mike wrote:
    http://www.thenewsroom.com/details/3721352

    meeting Monday 15 June - are folks going to speak and tell the council about the preemption violation?
    I will drive all the way to Greenfield from Chilton to patronize this guys hobby store.

    As far as those fines go. Will the people who go into a business with out a shirt or shoes be fined the same amount?

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    : Section 241 of Title 18 is the civil rights conspiracy statute. Section 241 makes it unlawful for two or more persons to agree together to injure, threaten, or intimidate a person in any state, territory or district in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him/her by the Constitution or the laws of the Unites States,(or because of his/her having exercised the same). Unlike most conspiracy statutes, Section 241 does not require that one of the conspirators commit an overt act prior to the conspiracy becoming a crime. The offense is punishable by a range of imprisonment up to a life term or the death penalty, depending upon the circumstances of the crime, and the resulting injury, if any.

    Maybe someone should go tonight and read this off to the common council. Maybe the idea of prison will scare them straight. Terrorists... freakin terrorists....


    http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/crim/241fin.php

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    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0165.pdf

    165.015 Duties. The attorney general shall:
    (1) GIVE OPINION TO OFFICERS. Give his or her opinion in writing,
    when required, without fee, upon all questions of law submitted
    to him or her by the legislature, either house thereof or the
    senate or assembly committee on organization, or by the head of
    any department of state government.
    (2) PROTECT TRUST FUNDS. Examine all applications for loans
    from any of the trust funds, and furnish to the commissioners of
    public lands his or her opinion in writing as to the regularity of
    each such application, and also of the validity of any bonds or
    other securities purchased for the benefit of such funds.
    (3) CERTIFY BONDS. Examine a certified copy of all proceedings
    preliminary to any issue of state bonds or notes, and, if found
    regular and valid, endorse on each bond or note his or her certificate
    of such examination and validity. The attorney general shall
    also make similar examinations and certificates respecting municipal
    bonds in the cases specified in s. 67.025.
    (4) KEEP STATEMENT OF FEES. Keep a detailed statement of all
    fees, including his or her fees as commissioner of public lands,
    received by him or her during the preceding year, and file such
    statement with the department of administration on or before June
    30 in each year.
    (5) REPORT TO LEGISLATURE. Upon request of the legislature
    or either house thereof, submit a report upon any matters pertaining
    to the duties of his or her office to the chief clerk of each house
    of the legislature, for distribution to the legislature under s. 13.172
    (2).
    (6) PERFORM OTHER DUTIES. Perform all other duties imposed
    upon the attorney general by law.
    History: 1971 c. 40 s. 93; 1971 c. 125; 1983 a. 36 s. 96 (2); 1987 a. 186; 1993 a.
    482.
    The attorney general, absent a specific legislative grant of power, is devoid of the
    inherent power to initiate and prosecute litigation intended to protect or promote the
    interests of the state or its citizens and cannot act for the state as parens patriae.
    Estate
    of Sharp, 63 Wis. 2d 254, 217 N.W.2d 258 (1974).
    The attorney general does not have authority to challenge the constitutionality of
    statutes. Any authority the attorney general has is found in the statutes. The attorney
    general’s constitutional powers and statutory powers are one and the same. State v.
    City of Oak Creek, 2000 WI 9, 232 Wis. 2d 612, 605 N.W.2d 526, 97−2188.
    The powers of the attorney general in Wisconsin. Van Alstyne, Roberts, 1974
    WLR 721.

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    Will anyone do it? I will go if I have to, but just got home and have TONS to do...


    These suckers really need to hear sec 241 title 18 tho


    If one of us dies because we couldn't carry, they can go to jail for life or get the death penalty.

  14. #14
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    That is another good defense for us.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0165.pdf

    165.015 Duties. The attorney general shall:
    (1) GIVE OPINION TO OFFICERS. Give his or her opinion in writing,
    when required, without fee, upon all questions of law submitted
    to him or her by the legislature, either house thereof or the
    senate or assembly committee on organization, or by the head of
    any department of state government.
    (2) PROTECT TRUST FUNDS. Examine all applications for loans
    from any of the trust funds, and furnish to the commissioners of
    public lands his or her opinion in writing as to the regularity of
    each such application, and also of the validity of any bonds or
    other securities purchased for the benefit of such funds.
    (3) CERTIFY BONDS. Examine a certified copy of all proceedings
    preliminary to any issue of state bonds or notes, and, if found
    regular and valid, endorse on each bond or note his or her certificate
    of such examination and validity. The attorney general shall
    also make similar examinations and certificates respecting municipal
    bonds in the cases specified in s. 67.025.
    (4) KEEP STATEMENT OF FEES. Keep a detailed statement of all
    fees, including his or her fees as commissioner of public lands,
    received by him or her during the preceding year, and file such
    statement with the department of administration on or before June
    30 in each year.
    (5) REPORT TO LEGISLATURE. Upon request of the legislature
    or either house thereof, submit a report upon any matters pertaining
    to the duties of his or her office to the chief clerk of each house
    of the legislature, for distribution to the legislature under s. 13.172
    (2).
    (6) PERFORM OTHER DUTIES. Perform all other duties imposed
    upon the attorney general by law.
    History: 1971 c. 40 s. 93; 1971 c. 125; 1983 a. 36 s. 96 (2); 1987 a. 186; 1993 a.
    482.
    The attorney general, absent a specific legislative grant of power, is devoid of the
    inherent power to initiate and prosecute litigation intended to protect or promote the
    interests of the state or its citizens and cannot act for the state as parens patriae.
    Estate
    of Sharp, 63 Wis. 2d 254, 217 N.W.2d 258 (1974).
    The attorney general does not have authority to challenge the constitutionality of
    statutes. Any authority the attorney general has is found in the statutes. The attorney
    general’s constitutional powers and statutory powers are one and the same. State v.
    City of Oak Creek, 2000 WI 9, 232 Wis. 2d 612, 605 N.W.2d 526, 97−2188.
    The powers of the attorney general in Wisconsin. Van Alstyne, Roberts, 1974
    WLR 721.
    Concerning the red print, that is correct however the AG can appoint a special prosecutor in some situations.

  16. #16
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    Really? Are you sure? Maybe your citation of the statute will also specify the special prosecutor's powers.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html
    7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbant upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when avaiable, is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.


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    weird

    dt

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    Typical political bs. Hey, let's pass a law to enforce what's already enforcable! More power to the signs, woe betide the unobservant and/or distracted!

    Ahem. Thanks to the Jay Gordon, the owner of Greenfield News and Hobby, who stood up for us all on the news. I fired off an email thanking him and directing him to this thread. I hope he understands how appreciated he is as a business owner with sense.

  19. #19
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    This REALLY ticks me off. I didnt hear about this crap until 06/16


    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  20. #20
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Really? Are you sure? Maybe your citation of the statute will also specify the special prosecutor's powers.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html
    7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbant upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when avaiable, is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
    Really Doug do you have to take it that far? Everyone knows that AG's can appoint special prosecutors in certain cases. Give me a break. Maybe it is because of my profession that I know this, but I thought it was common knowledge. Just like a Judge can appoint a special prosecutor. Sorry Doug I have NO statute to cite for ya!

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