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Thread: Greenfield Meeting TONIGHT (June 15th), we need people there...

  1. #1
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    This is a cross post to the Greenfield Common Council meeting tonight, June 15th from the Hot Topic Forum, and it is was also brought up in the "What's Next" thread by Brad_Krause at Mon Jun 15th, 2009 04:57 am....

    however, if you are just reading the WI forum and aren't in every thread you might not know about it... we need to get people at this meeting to stop this legislation...

    So this is a new thread to inform everyone... please go to those thread and reply so we can keep all of this information in the same place.

    I realize this is a repost of information, but people need to know about it...

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    I think the meeting went well, but it is hard to say.

    I think about 9 people spoke out, all against the proposed law. None for.

    Interesting, I thought Linda Lubotsky said that this proposal was all started at the request of the Police, not any store owner. Also, I do not know why she felt the need to tell us that she does not own a gun (at this time). When she looked over the copy of 66.0409 (that I had to give her?) she acted like she had never seen it before. In fact, at the end, Thomas Pietrowski held it up and told us all he never knew that such a Statute existed! Thomas even looked to be a bit mad about not knowing any of the facts about the open carry laws. Linda had to ask one of our forum members what Open Carry looks like:what:... I guess none of them looked any info up on any of this. Roger Pyzyk (the City "Attorney"), looked to be a bit red in the face for most of the show, I guess I would too if I were him...

    In the end... Because of Thomas Pietrowskis' help (IMO), and the rest of us that went, it is being put off for more research. I do not know what the next date will be for it... I do think that Thomas Pietrowski might be a friend on this, but itwas the first time I have seen him. Have to start working on him...

    Saw a few people from the forum, but don't like name dropping...

    This was a first for me. Never went to a City meeting before. I guess I owe it to this movement. Just makes me feel more "American". Better news, now my wife wants to start to go to moreCity meetingswith me. Keep that fire burning!

    On a side note, I don't think the board even knew that I had on an empty holster, until I had to give them a sheet of paper. None looked freaked out to me...




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    Good job guys. I wonder if they'll still cover these "events" on the local news now that both cities have all be shelved these idiotic ordinances. Someone who attended the city meetings should write a thoughtful letter to the editor at the Journal-Sentinal.
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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    Slam fire of an unregistered semiautomatic mouse clicker...
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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    Deleted.
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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    My understanding is that the police department (do not know who specifically) asked that this ordinance be created because they did not feel that the disorderly conduct or trespassing ordinances were sufficient.

    Linda Lubotsky did her "research" yesterday, which entailed calling the state to find out what statutes were involved. It seemed to me that the three alderpersons were completely unprepared for this discussion, but were prepared to vote for this if many of us did not show up to speak. Credit to Lubotsky for hanging out after the meeting to talk to us and get a better understanding of OC and related issues.

    Before the meeting they were discussing 941.235 and 941.237 as the two main statutes affecting the discussion. I was really surprised that the city attorney allowed them to even get to this point, in light of 66.0409, and the potential legal problems they could face if there new ordinance was enacted. Isn't it his job to understand the lawyer stuff, and protect the interests of the city?

    I appreciated meeting everyone on our side. Not surprising, everyone was well spoken, knowledgable and respectful. We need to do the same thing tonight in South Milwaukee.

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    Problems with multiple postings - Mike, please feel free to delete multiples.

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    WI Patriot wrote:
    I was really surprised that the city attorney allowed them to even get to this point, in light of 66.0409, and the potential legal problems they could face if there new ordinance was enacted. Isn't it his job to understand the lawyer stuff, and protect the interests of the city?
    In this day and age not many citizens go to the meetings anymore. So he probably didn't think he had anything to worry about. I am sure he will have more to say next time, maybe. Sounds to me like this is the only job the guy has. He probably does not have a very lucrative practice.

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    Just looked at Greenfield's municipal code. The agenda of the meeting last night stated that they wanted to "...amend Chapter 10 of the Municipal Code to include the following state statutes regarding firearms:..."

    The issue is that Chapter 10(1) violates state statute 66.0409:
    10.01 Weapons.
    (1)Discharging and carrying of firearms and guns prohibited. (Cr. #1412) No person, except a sheriff, constable, police officer or their deputies, shall fire or discharge any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun within the City or have any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun in his possession or under his control, unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container, provided the City Council may permit the maintenance and use of supervised rifle or pistol ranges or shooting galleries. This subsection shall prohibit hunting within the City.


    I don't know how they can go forward with this.






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    Thanks to all that showed up, I wish I could have been there. It would be nice to put some faces to names one of these days. =)

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    WI Patriot wrote:
    I was really surprised that the city attorney allowed them to even get to this point, in light of 66.0409, and the potential legal problems they could face if there new ordinance was enacted. Isn't it his job to understand the lawyer stuff, and protect the interests of the city?
    In this day and age not many citizens go to the meetings anymore. So he probably didn't think he had anything to worry about. I am sure he will have more to say next time, maybe. Sounds to me like this is the only job the guy has. He probably does not have a very lucrative practice.

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    Thanks to all that showed up, I wish I could have been there. It would be nice to put some faces to names one of these days. =)

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    First off thank you to all who showed up! I wish I could have been there but I got off of work at 6:40. I have written to tmj4 and Fox 6 but it seems like they could care less...... I'll look forward to going to the next one if there is one, maybe even ask off of work early. Hey Magenlude remember we also are doing an adopt a highway program, and we go out and clean on the 27th. I believe it's under hot topics.



    Ben

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    BJA wrote:
    I have written to tmj4 and Fox 6 but it seems like they could care less......
    Fox 6 was there, but I didn't see anything in the newscast about the meeting.

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    WI Patriot wrote:
    I don't know how they can go forward with this.
    What officer of what jurisdiction is charged with enforcing State statute against a subdivision (a county or municipality) of itself?

    You cannot be preemptively prevented from speeding or from yelling "fire!" in a theater, how would you prospectively prevent the state (small 's') from violating a preemption statute.

    I ANAL but believe that once the preempted ordinance is enacted then someone must gain legal standing to go through the appeal process.

    How is public policy made? In my microscopic instance I wrote an ordinance against the interest of many special-interests. They biotched to the heavens but they pay their garbage tipping fees. I'm up for re-election in the spring, then we'll balance the pros and the confidence men.

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    Figures that my town would do something like this AFTER I'm back in North Dakota. :P

    Thanks to everyone who went!

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    We will have to keep a close eye on this so the council does not try slipping it in on another meeting when our members or people who support our cause are not present. Do Not trust these people!

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    U elected'em! gd elitewannabe

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    No1 wrote:
    U elected'em! gd elitewannabe
    Just exactly what does this mean?

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    J.Gleason wrote:
    No1 wrote:
    U elected'em! gd elitewannabe
    Just exactly what does this mean?
    ...

    The important this is to keep in mind that South Milwaukee is going to pass this same kind of thing, if we do not show up, and speak to them about it. We need people to go, to stop this. Greenfield is watching to see what South Milwaukee is going to do. If it passes in S. Milw. it will pass in Greenfield. If it passes in Greenfield, I bet it passes all over the state, at random. We will have a true patchwork of local gun laws. And no real regulation on what this sign would look like. Some place might make it a small button size, and others a big black and white thing. We won't have any idea what to be looking for...

    With that in mind, when is the next South Milwaukee meeting? I would like to go. Greenfield was fun. The only people that spoke in the room, were all on our side!

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    J.Gleason wrote:
    No1 wrote:
    U elected'em! gd elitewannabe
    Just exactly what does this mean?
    Translation:

    "You elected them! G-d damn elitist wannabe"

    “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

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    With that in mind, when is the next South Milwaukee meeting? I would like to go. Greenfield was fun. The only people that spoke in the room, were all on our side!
    The proposed ordinance for South Milwaukee was voted upon last night. The vote was 4-4, with the mayor not wanting to vote. With a tie vote, it died. I was told by one alderman that this will not come up again.

    If you look at the South Milwaukee thread, you will see postings from Alderperson Lisa Pieper. She took a special interest in this ordinance, learning as much as she could about the state statutes related to OC, and communicated with several OCDO members, including myself. She deserves a great deal of credit for her efforts.

    Every OCDO member needs to research their community's firearms policies for descrepancies such as violating the pre-emption statute. For example, Greenfield's municipal code states that no firearms are allowed in Greenfield. I have emailed the city attorney to bring this to his attention.


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    I really do have to respect Lisa Pieper. She did what no person did in Greenfield. She asked questions, and read what she could, to be able to make an informed decision. And it looks like she did just that. She did her job well. I wish Greenfield would take the time to learn from this.

    I am super happy to find out that it did not pass in S. Milw. It could have started a real run on bad laws. Now I hope Greenfield will see this, and drop it as well.

    How did the S. Milw meeting go? I was unable to make it.



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    OK, Greenfield has passed an ordinance that is in clear violation of state law. Go to the DA's office and file a CRIMINAL COMPLAINT. Take as many as you can with you and have them ALL sign the complaint. Then release a copy of the complaint, against the ENTIRE COUNCIL,to the media.

    Also notify the AG office, and demand the AG ENFORCE THE LAW. Remember, you aren't asking for an opinion, your asking him to CHARGE THE ENTIRE CITY COUNCIL WITH A CRIME!

    You will also need to get a lawyer and immediately file for an injunction against the city to prevent them from enacting the ordinance. Yes, I know, it takes money, but if you guys can't figure out how to stand together and pool your resources in Wisconsin, then smooth was right, Wisconsin is LOST.



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