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Thread: Carrying a Gun at Church

  1. #1
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    My church meets in a public high school for sunday worship and has offices that we hold weekly meetings in a middle school. Obviously if my cleargy gives me permission i could open carry if it was normal church building, but its not could i still carry on sunday when the school is empty and only being used by our church and then during the week just in the rooms we use. I figure the fact that we lease has to give some type of property rights. Or do i have to wait for my CPL (which should show up in another month hopefully) in that case can I concele carry it with cleargy permission or would i have to open carry because we meet in a public high school. My cleargy is favorible to carrying but this one seems like kind of a fuzzy area. So I want to know how i could go about doing this leagaly. Thanks for the help.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    My first response would be NO as it is still a school... and while technically you might be able to OC there with a CPL I don't think I would want to be the test case.

    Anyway I am sure that someone will come along with a better more detailed response than mine!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    I think you see the problem with the place being both a "school" and a "church". As such, the most conservative answer would be that you can't cc but can oc once you have the cpl in hand and permission from the presiding official. The most "open" interpretation is that you could cc with the permission of the presiding official. Or, you could choose not to carry at all, which to me is NOT an option.

    Remember: Law says you can't carry a gun? . . .I'll point out some dead people who would love to be living outlaws.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    the500kid wrote:
    My church meets in a public high school for sunday worship and has offices that we hold weekly meetings in a middle school. Obviously if my cleargy gives me permission i could open carry if it was normal church building, but its not could i still carry on sunday when the school is empty and only being used by our church and then during the week just in the rooms we use. I figure the fact that we lease has to give some type of property rights. Or do i have to wait for my CPL (which should show up in another month hopefully) in that case can I concele carry it with cleargy permission or would i have to open carry because we meet in a public high school. My cleargy is favorible to carrying but this one seems like kind of a fuzzy area. So I want to know how i could go about doing this leagaly. Thanks for the help.

    I guess I'm not to happy to hear that a public school is used for a church service. Does the church pay for the building? I'm a strong believerin separation of any public sector (government)getting involved in any church. We just have to look at the middle east to see how well a theocracy works in regards to freedom.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    the500kid wrote:
    My church meets in a public high school for sunday worship and has offices that we hold weekly meetings in a middle school. Obviously if my cleargy gives me permission i could open carry if it was normal church building, but its not could i still carry on sunday when the school is empty and only being used by our church and then during the week just in the rooms we use. I figure the fact that we lease has to give some type of property rights. Or do i have to wait for my CPL (which should show up in another month hopefully) in that case can I concele carry it with cleargy permission or would i have to open carry because we meet in a public high school. My cleargy is favorible to carrying but this one seems like kind of a fuzzy area. So I want to know how i could go about doing this leagaly. Thanks for the help.

    I guess I'm not to happy to hear that a public school is used for a church service. Does the church pay for the building? I'm a strong believerin separation of any public sector (government)getting involved in any church. We just have to look at the middle east to see how well a theocracy works in regards to freedom.
    This is a pretty common occurrence in West Michigan and, I imagine, in other areas of the state too. Legally, a school has to offer it's building to religious organizations to the same extent that they offer leasing the space to secular organizations. It is often used as a way to earn a little badly needed money for cash-strapped school districts. Some do not offer it to any organizations, some do. The district I currently work for does not. A district I formerly worked for did, and it was not pleasant to walk back into my classroom on Monday having had my desk gone through or items missing from the classroom. Not that many or all organizations do this, but the one that used my classroom did.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    I guess I'm not to happy to hear that a public school is used for a church service. Does the church pay for the building? I'm a strong believerin separation of any public sector (government)getting involved in any church. We just have to look at the middle east to see how well a theocracy works in regards to freedom.
    Yes, The Church pays for the use of the building. It rents the school adutorium on sundays and has offices and the use of a few rooms that it rents for the rest of the month. I understand that its a fairly common occurance in this area of the state. Would the fact that the rooms are rented give it private property rights when the areas are being rented. And then allow the guns to be carried as the law says. Or do I need to follow it as the law allows for a school?

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Well, you would be violating the Federal Gun Free School Zone law if you don't have your CPL.

    Don't know if Michigan has it's own Gun Free School Zone law, and I don't think anyone has actually been prosecuted by the Feds for this.

    But, it technically would still be a Federal Offense.

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