• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Carrying a Gun at Church

the500kid

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
135
Location
Westland, Michigan, USA
imported post

My church meets in a public high school for sunday worship and has offices that we hold weekly meetings in a middle school. Obviously if my cleargy gives me permission i could open carry if it was normal church building, but its not could i still carry on sunday when the school is empty and only being used by our church and then during the week just in the rooms we use. I figure the fact that we lease has to give some type of property rights. Or do i have to wait for my CPL (which should show up in another month hopefully) in that case can I concele carry it with cleargy permission or would i have to open carry because we meet in a public high school. My cleargy is favorible to carrying but this one seems like kind of a fuzzy area. So I want to know how i could go about doing this leagaly. Thanks for the help.
 

autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
imported post

My first response would be NO as it is still a school... and while technically you might be able to OC there with a CPL I don't think I would want to be the test case.

Anyway I am sure that someone will come along with a better more detailed response than mine!
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
imported post

I think you see the problem with the place being both a "school" and a "church". As such, the most conservative answer would be that you can't cc but can oc once you have the cpl in hand and permission from the presiding official. The most "open" interpretation is that you could cc with the permission of the presiding official. Or, you could choose not to carry at all, which to me is NOT an option.

Remember: Law says you can't carry a gun? . . .I'll point out some dead people who would love to be living outlaws.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

the500kid wrote:
My church meets in a public high school for sunday worship and has offices that we hold weekly meetings in a middle school. Obviously if my cleargy gives me permission i could open carry if it was normal church building, but its not could i still carry on sunday when the school is empty and only being used by our church and then during the week just in the rooms we use. I figure the fact that we lease has to give some type of property rights. Or do i have to wait for my CPL (which should show up in another month hopefully) in that case can I concele carry it with cleargy permission or would i have to open carry because we meet in a public high school. My cleargy is favorible to carrying but this one seems like kind of a fuzzy area. So I want to know how i could go about doing this leagaly. Thanks for the help.


I guess I'm not to happy to hear that a public school is used for a church service. Does the church pay for the building? I'm a strong believerin separation of any public sector (government)getting involved in any church. We just have to look at the middle east to see how well a theocracy works in regards to freedom.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
the500kid wrote:
My church meets in a public high school for sunday worship and has offices that we hold weekly meetings in a middle school. Obviously if my cleargy gives me permission i could open carry if it was normal church building, but its not could i still carry on sunday when the school is empty and only being used by our church and then during the week just in the rooms we use. I figure the fact that we lease has to give some type of property rights. Or do i have to wait for my CPL (which should show up in another month hopefully) in that case can I concele carry it with cleargy permission or would i have to open carry because we meet in a public high school. My cleargy is favorible to carrying but this one seems like kind of a fuzzy area. So I want to know how i could go about doing this leagaly. Thanks for the help.


I guess I'm not to happy to hear that a public school is used for a church service. Does the church pay for the building? I'm a strong believerin separation of any public sector (government)getting involved in any church. We just have to look at the middle east to see how well a theocracy works in regards to freedom.
This is a pretty common occurrence in West Michigan and, I imagine, in other areas of the state too. Legally, a school has to offer it's building to religious organizations to the same extent that they offer leasing the space to secular organizations. It is often used as a way to earn a little badly needed money for cash-strapped school districts. Some do not offer it to any organizations, some do. The district I currently work for does not. A district I formerly worked for did, and it was not pleasant to walk back into my classroom on Monday having had my desk gone through or items missing from the classroom. Not that many or all organizations do this, but the one that used my classroom did.
 

the500kid

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
135
Location
Westland, Michigan, USA
imported post

I guess I'm not to happy to hear that a public school is used for a church service. Does the church pay for the building? I'm a strong believerin separation of any public sector (government)getting involved in any church. We just have to look at the middle east to see how well a theocracy works in regards to freedom.

Yes, The Church pays for the use of the building. It rents the school adutorium on sundays and has offices and the use of a few rooms that it rents for the rest of the month. I understand that its a fairly common occurance in this area of the state. Would the fact that the rooms are rented give it private property rights when the areas are being rented. And then allow the guns to be carried as the law says. Or do I need to follow it as the law allows for a school?
 

Decoligny

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
1,865
Location
Rosamond, California, USA
imported post

Well, you would be violating the Federal Gun Free School Zone law if you don't have your CPL.

Don't know if Michigan has it's own Gun Free School Zone law, and I don't think anyone has actually been prosecuted by the Feds for this.

But, it technically would still be a Federal Offense.
 
Top