.38 Special

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I like .38 Special. I have a few other guns, and my daily carry sometimes varies. My favorite hideout (.38 Special) is an old Model 10 with most everything bobbed. (I can't find my picture to post.) I load a 158 grain flat nosed bullet with a serious dose of something slow.

Or, more typical for carry, some Winchester 158 grain SWCHP rounds. The most accurate round I've found in it is the Federal HydraShok 125 jacketed. So that's in the extra speed loader.

It'll do for what I need.

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KE7QXB wrote:

That rossi has a 3 inch barrel? I wish my little .38 had a little longer of a barrel but its not bad at the range. I am still trying to get the groupings closer together but thats time I think.

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Sorry the reply took so long, I didn't have pics until last night. Yes it most assuredly has a 3" barrel. To the best of my knowledge, Rossi still makes 3" .38's, they just aren't imported here. This one was manufactured sometime between 1978 and 1985 and importedby Interarms. The extra inch of barrel length does make a difference in accuracy.

When I got this thing it wouldn't make a good paper weight. A previous owner had tried to electroplate the cylinder and barrel gold, the grips looked like they'd been floating in a pond for a long while and I don't think it'd been cleaned since being sold new. The action would barely move. It was, in a word, fugly. Make that double fugly. Probably dangerous too.

Here it is ready to go to a new home. All in including the gun, grips, holster, rug, cable lock, two boxes of ammo and the strip of Starfires, still under $100. That's well within anyone's budget. It'll make a great starter gun and get her through a CWP class before possibly upgrading to a .357. The bonus to this deal is that it's incredibly accurate up to 15 yards.








Happy birthday Holly!

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Looks really nice and the blue on it is still good looking from what I can see. Thanks for posting some pics of it. I also like the holster you have for it. All in all a good defense carry.

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KE7QXB wrote:

The manual on my charter .38 says not to use +p cartridges. I feel like in a tight spot the regular cartridges should give me a defensive advantage. But if the bg is packing a huge gun I am in trouble. I will just have to do my best and hope my instincts are good in that situation. Some folks say its shot placement thats most importatant. I figure if I am in that situation I will probably be shakey as all get out. Thats why I go to the range. Just to keep from being totally rusty. Next on my list is the 9mm sigma which will be a little better for sd. I feel like 9mm is so much more affordable as far as range time and a box of cartridges is concerned. Just glad to see people still rely on this great gun. Hopefully the .38 will live on for a long time.

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9mm is for sure more affordable than 38 spl (38 spl is often almost the same price as 45ACP, that is when you can find either of them). However, I really don't think that ballistics are better. As far as I remember, 38 spl is far better SD option than a 9mm, even though 9mm is a decent round too and I carry it from time to time.

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DrewGunner wrote:

I'm not a fan of the old skool skinny grip. So I carry this:

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I dunno about old SKOOL, but you must've missed a lotof English lessons in highSCHOOL :lol:

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Chaingun81 wrote:

9mm is for sure more affordable than 38 spl (38 spl is often almost the same price as 45ACP, that is when you can find either of them). However, I really don't think that ballistics are better. As far as I remember, 38 spl is far better SD option than a 9mm, even though 9mm is a decent round too and I carry it from time to time.

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While the performance of the two rounds is very similar in my opinion, the 9mm will usually have slightly better ballistics.

An arbitrary load in each caliber (maybe in a 4" barrel) might be:

9mm ~= 124 gr @ 1154 fps
.38 Special ~= 158 gr @ 800 fps

Which would give .38 special only 70% of the velocity making for a less flat trajectory, as well as having 88% of the momentum , and 61% of the energy.

Both calibers are roughly the same diameter (9mm .354-.355, .38 special around .357).


However, a typical .38 special generates about 17,500 PSI I believe, and a typical 9mm generates about twice the pressure at about 35,000 PSI, which is about the same amount of pressure as a typical .357 magnum but less performance. So 9mm will probably cause more wear on a gun (if you had identical guns in different chamberings) proportional to the amount of "oomph" the round has.

(Of course, there are many different bullet weights used, different powders used, +P, etc. but I was just imagining an arbitrary cartridge for direct comparison.)

The actual amount of energy etc. that a round has is not always directly equal to its terminal performance. Bullet design has a lot to do with it so that the round gets adequate penetration etc. I recommend reading this FBI document: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm to anyone interested in understanding terminal effectiveness.

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Felid`Maximus wrote:

Chaingun81 wrote:

9mm is for sure more affordable than 38 spl (38 spl is often almost the same price as 45ACP, that is when you can find either of them). However, I really don't think that ballistics are better. As far as I remember, 38 spl is far better SD option than a 9mm, even though 9mm is a decent round too and I carry it from time to time.

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While the performance of the two rounds is very similar in my opinion, the 9mm will usually have slightly better ballistics.

An arbitrary load in each caliber (maybe in a 4" barrel) might be:

9mm ~= 124 gr @ 1154 fps
.38 Special ~= 158 gr @ 800 fps

Which would give .38 special only 70% of the velocity making for a less flat trajectory, as well as having 88% of the momentum , and 61% of the energy.

Both calibers are roughly the same diameter (9mm .354-.355, .38 special around .357).

However, a typical .38 special generates about 17,500 PSI I believe, and a typical 9mm generates about twice the pressure at about 35,000 PSI, which is about the same amount of pressure as a typical .357 magnum but less performance. So 9mm will probably cause more wear on a gun (if you had identical guns in different chamberings) proportional to the amount of "oomph" the round has.

(Of course, there are many different bullet weights used, different powders used, +P, etc. but I was just imagining an arbitrary cartridge for direct comparison.)

The actual amount of energy etc. that a round has is not always directly equal to its terminal performance. Bullet design has a lot to do with it so that the round gets adequate penetration etc. I recommend reading this FBI document: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm to anyone interested in understanding terminal effectiveness.

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Hm...interesting. I thought that 38 Spl being that much longer (almost looking like a rifle round) would pack more punch. I guess, only a fraction of the casing is filled with gunpowder? I never reloaded so I wouldn't know...

On the side note, you hear a lot about 9mm overpenetration, but I've never heard about 38 Spl having the same problem...

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If you shake a .38 special (or a .22lr) next to your ear you can usually hear the powder move around since it isn't totally full. On a lot of other calibers you usually won't hear anything. In .357 Magnum the casing is only slightly longer, (probably mainly to prevent them from fitting in a .38 special cylinder,) but usually has more powder in it.

I don't think over-penetration is really much of a problem on any cartridge. I mean sure, ideally you would want to have a round pop out someone's back and fall directly the floor. You do want an exit wound because an exit wound causes blood loss (and incapacitation) much faster than only an entrance wound.

If the bullet has any energy when it leaves, some might say that it "wastes" some energy it could have used to destroy some tissue, but it is more important to be able to penetrate to vital zones than to not reach them. In my opinion, more penetration is generally better because it allows you to get through thick clothes, fat people, bones, and other objects that might be between you and the target. Some rounds will expend practically all of their energy by slowing themselves to a stop in the target. This does not necessarily make them more effective. If a bullet does this and only penetrates 2" but makes a big wide surface wound I think it would be less effective at incapacitation than if it penetrated deep enough to reach vital organs. Projectile expansion is good, but only if it doesn't compromise vital penetration. For some really low powered cartridges an FMJ might be better than a JHP since the penetration is often pretty low with the expanding projectiles. (The FBI recommends 12" of penetration in gelatin but I'm not sure how arbitrary this is or by what means they came up with that number.)

As far as hitting unintended targets, I think that it is far more likely that you will hit unintended targets by missing the target altogether than by hitting another unintended target behind your original target. If you were to hit an unintended target behind your original target it also would have lost a lot of its energy first. And I think just about any round that is effective for self-defense will penetrate through many layers of dry-wall.

(They have a lot of dry-wall tests at: http://www.theboxotruth.com/ )

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I think .38 Special originally existed as a black powder cartridge before it became a smokeless powder cartridge. This may have a lot to do with the design.

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I carry the S&W 642 (airweight, .38+p, hammerless snubbie, similar pics here, just add the long CT grip and delete the hammer in your mind ) with the CT "long style" laser grips and the bullets I carry: (designed for THIS w/ short 1 7/8" barrel I was often told..) Speer dot .38+P pers defense loads #23921 GDHPs, box 20. With my plastic belt holster, loaded, it's still under 2lbs and packs a wallop and great ballistics w/ those Speer Dots...38 SPCL was my carry in the Air Force and I shot expert with it (but not the Beretta 9MM for some reason, sometimes, worn out guns you get at the range, sometimes not). I have small hands so although an auto would be a better choice, I don't carry for the daily check/recheck of carrying w/ one in the chamber and "constant spring pressures" of an auto stayin' loaded, thus, I prefer a revolver for self defense...my cousin swears by his same gun as his backup weapon in NJ for police dept w/ ankle holster... I have 3-4 speed loaders in the car glove compartment, bedside and "coat carry" that are enough firepower for me. Hammerless means no snag, small size conceals under a t-shirt, it is a handsome, nice weapon. Thus, I gave my Taurus "standard size" .38 SPCL to gal friend who likes the function of a hammer, the added weight of that gun for recoil and she shoots VERY well the highly recommended Federal 110 gr "personal defense - low recoil hollow point" loads...If I knew that 9mm loads were gonna be 20% less cost now than the .38, (9mm always cost more years ago)I would've checked/gone for the same/similar weapon in 9mm if it was made/chambered for the 9mm...paid $21 a brick for .38 spcl WINCH 130 gr, FMJ target loads toady, and had been looking at outa stock stores in PDX/Couver area for over a month! Just over a year ago paid $11 for lead ball .38's, whas up w/ ammo shortage/prices BTW??:cuss:

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JeffinWesternWA wrote:

I carry the S&W 642 (airweight, .38+p, hammerless snubbie) with the CT "long style" laser grips and the bullets: (designed for THIS w/ short 1 7/8" barrell I was often told..) Speer dot .38+P pers defense loads. With my plastic belt holster, loaded it's still under 2lbs and still packs a wallop and great ballistics w/ the Speer Dots....38 SPCL was my carry in the Air Force and I shot expert with it (but not the baretta 9MM for some reason, sometimes, worn out guns you get at the range, sometimes not). I have small hands so although an auto would be a better choice, I don't carre for the daily check/recheck of carrying w/ one in the chamber and "constant spring pressures" of an auto stayin' loaded, thus I prefer a revolver for self defense...my cousin swears by his same gun as his backup weapon in NJ for police dept w/ ankle holster...and I have speed loaders in the car glove compartment, bedside and "coat carry" that are enough firepower for me. Hammereless means no snag, small size conceals under a t-shirt, it is a handsome, nice weapon. Thus, I gave my Taurus "standard size" .38 SPCL to gal friend who likes the function of a hammer, the added weight of that gun for recoil and she shoots VERY well the Federal 110 gr "personal defense - low recoil hollow point" loads...If I knew that 9mm loads were gonna be 20% less cost now than the .38, (9mm always cost more years ago)I would've checked/gone for the same/similar weapon in 9mm if it was made/chambered for the 9mm...paid $21 a brick for .38 spcl WINCH 130 gr, FMJ target loads toady, and had been looking at outa stock stores in PDX/Couver area for over a month! Just over a year ago paid $11 for lead ball .38's, whas up w/ ammo shortage/pruices BTW??:cuss:

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Good lord, get a spellcheck :lol:

I,ve got a blued Taurus model 85 ultralite ,I pack with 110gr +P hornady critical defense .I just got a good deal on on a box of 158gr lead round nose gonna have some range time soon I hope.

deepdiver said:

Felid`Maximus wrote: You could always use some .38 +Ps as an intermediary choice. Just throwing it out there.

I don't have a .38 snubby, but I do have an about 100 year old 4" S&W .38 special that was bought new by my great-grandfather that I still shoot on occasion. It is still quite accurate and rather fun to shoot. I wish they had taken better care of it over the years, but mechanically it is still sound.

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Please do not use +P in it. Older Smiths were not built for the pressure. IMO the standard pressure is plenty to do the job. Especially considering most stops by handgun are made with 380 and 22 LR, or so that is the claim.

WalkingWolf said:

Please do not use +P in it. Older Smiths were not built for the pressure. IMO the standard pressure is plenty to do the job. Especially considering most stops by handgun are made with 380 and 22 LR, or so that is the claim.

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This is spot on! Also most folks don't understand that unless you have a barrel length of 4 inches or greater that the powder does not have the time needed to be fully burned in the barrel and build the designed pressure anyways. This is why you get huge muzzle flash when using p+ ammo in short barrels, the powder is burning outside the barrel. This is why all "service" pistols have 4+ inch barrels. Using p+ ammo in a 357 mag. Snubby yields velocity not that much greater than a standard 38spl round, just with a muzzle flash large enough to cook bacon over...

FreeInAZ said:

This is spot on! Also most folks don't understand that unless you have a barrel length of 4 inches or greater that the powder does not have the time needed to be fully burned in the barrel and build the designed pressure anyways. This is why you get huge muzzle flash when using p+ ammo in short barrels, the powder is burning outside the barrel. This is why all "service" pistols have 4+ inch barrels. Using p+ ammo in a 357 mag. Snubby yields velocity not that much greater than a standard 38spl round, just with a muzzle flash large enough to cook bacon over...

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Generally pistol calibers are loaded for 5 inch test barrels. I think BB uses actual guns for testing. The FBI load was loaded for snubs, it drove a heavy bullet with fast powder. Most people think light and fast(slow powder), but this should not be the case for snubbies. I load non +p to the upper load limits, BUT it is still within SAAMI. I use fast powder(Hodgdon Universal) and 160grain soft lead bullet. It performs well with often less recoil than manufactured standard ammo.

To use cartridges like the 38 spl one must have accuracy at the top of their agenda. That is difficult somewhat with a short sight radius, making short barreled guns, even those of a larger caliber, close range guns. Which is OK, because most fights are close range, but I like to be able to place a shot in either eye at 10 yards for a EDC. My shooting routine has always been one shot in the center mass, one shot in the head. I believe the shock of being shot in the gut, will slow or stop a attacker giving time for a head shot if the attacker does not stop.

Most times a person only has to see a gun to change their mind on committing a vile act, hence why I open carry.