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Some Code that you should know before you believe what others say.
- Thread starter derf
- Start date
XD-GEM
Campaign Veteran
imported post
derf wrote:
I know that might surprise you some, derf, as you've only been here a short time; but there really is a lot of that (or similar) discussion all over this board. You'd also be surprised to find that a great many OCers have been instrumental in opening rights for all gun owners in various parts of the country. (See Wisconsin or the Hot Topics category for a South Milwaulkee anti-gun ordinance that was defeated this weeklargely due to OCDO members and one surprisingly open politician).
One case close to home happens to be the Bass Pro Shop policy being changed recently in Denham Springs. As I recall it, someone in one forum got a letter from Cabella's describing their corporate office's gun carry policy and posted it here. Another member presented it to a manager in Denham who passed it up his chain of command, resulting in a policy change to match that of Cabella's (and Walmart's as well, BTW), meaning that carry in whatever manner was legal in any given store's state would be allowed.
derf wrote:
I know that might surprise you some, derf, as you've only been here a short time; but there really is a lot of that (or similar) discussion all over this board. You'd also be surprised to find that a great many OCers have been instrumental in opening rights for all gun owners in various parts of the country. (See Wisconsin or the Hot Topics category for a South Milwaulkee anti-gun ordinance that was defeated this weeklargely due to OCDO members and one surprisingly open politician).
One case close to home happens to be the Bass Pro Shop policy being changed recently in Denham Springs. As I recall it, someone in one forum got a letter from Cabella's describing their corporate office's gun carry policy and posted it here. Another member presented it to a manager in Denham who passed it up his chain of command, resulting in a policy change to match that of Cabella's (and Walmart's as well, BTW), meaning that carry in whatever manner was legal in any given store's state would be allowed.
nolacopusmc
Banned
imported post
derf wrote:
FTR, I have no problem speaking intelligently and maturely when all parties are doing the same. In other threads on this board, other make personal attacks and completely irrelevant posts, so for my own shits and giggles, i fire back.
Just to put it out there one more time, I actually speak to open Carry in every one of my classes. i advise all students that it is their right. I give them my opinion that it is not a sound tactical decision in many, not all, but many situations.
Yesterday, i tought a private class for a couple in Slidell. The wife was getting a LA CHP, but the husband could not because of a previous record. I made sure to point out some suggestions for how OC could work for him.
We are going to do some weapon retention training for her for CHP and him for OC.
I have no problem with OC or our right to do so. I wish everyone did it and it was as accepted in our society as driving a car. However, unlike some, I am real and operate in the real world. It soimply, at this time, is not worth the potential problems to do it wihen other, and more viable options in my opinion exists.
That said, like some I do not consider myself a freedom fighter for OC or theat I am ordained to force mty klnowledge down people's throats. People seek me out for training.
The issue many have on here is not at all with OC. It is the delivery method of people like MEM, Smoking357, and others. It flat out sucks, as evidented by personal account of someone who had a first person interactoion with MEM's Constitutional Knowledge Task FOrce.
They act like everyone who cannot recite the constitution by heart is a fascist or un-American, Even though unlike them, many of us have actuially done something other than collect a check like fight for our country and put our lives on the line.
None of them have the intestinal fortitude to do that. They rather take the money of hard working taxpayers to pay for their extravagent bikes and personalized plates and then flaunt it in the face of those who pay for all while saying. "I am doing this to protect your rights."
OC is great.
MEM and his MEMONITES are a detrement to gun owners everywhere.
My opinion.
derf wrote:
FTR, I have no problem speaking intelligently and maturely when all parties are doing the same. In other threads on this board, other make personal attacks and completely irrelevant posts, so for my own shits and giggles, i fire back.
Just to put it out there one more time, I actually speak to open Carry in every one of my classes. i advise all students that it is their right. I give them my opinion that it is not a sound tactical decision in many, not all, but many situations.
Yesterday, i tought a private class for a couple in Slidell. The wife was getting a LA CHP, but the husband could not because of a previous record. I made sure to point out some suggestions for how OC could work for him.
We are going to do some weapon retention training for her for CHP and him for OC.
I have no problem with OC or our right to do so. I wish everyone did it and it was as accepted in our society as driving a car. However, unlike some, I am real and operate in the real world. It soimply, at this time, is not worth the potential problems to do it wihen other, and more viable options in my opinion exists.
That said, like some I do not consider myself a freedom fighter for OC or theat I am ordained to force mty klnowledge down people's throats. People seek me out for training.
The issue many have on here is not at all with OC. It is the delivery method of people like MEM, Smoking357, and others. It flat out sucks, as evidented by personal account of someone who had a first person interactoion with MEM's Constitutional Knowledge Task FOrce.
They act like everyone who cannot recite the constitution by heart is a fascist or un-American, Even though unlike them, many of us have actuially done something other than collect a check like fight for our country and put our lives on the line.
None of them have the intestinal fortitude to do that. They rather take the money of hard working taxpayers to pay for their extravagent bikes and personalized plates and then flaunt it in the face of those who pay for all while saying. "I am doing this to protect your rights."
OC is great.
MEM and his MEMONITES are a detrement to gun owners everywhere.
My opinion.
smoking357
Banned
imported post
nolacopusmc wrote:
Those "hard-working taxpayers" wouldn't have to work so hard to pay taxes if the government didn't have so many employees and wasn't trampling people's rights and paying out settlements.
Mark has done more for my freedom than just about anyone I can think of. The guy in Wisconsin who won the open carry case is also a great freedom fighter.
nolacopusmc wrote:
Those "hard-working taxpayers" wouldn't have to work so hard to pay taxes if the government didn't have so many employees and wasn't trampling people's rights and paying out settlements.
Mark has done more for my freedom than just about anyone I can think of. The guy in Wisconsin who won the open carry case is also a great freedom fighter.
nolacopusmc
Banned
imported post
smoking357 wrote:
Thank you sir for a first rate example of the blubbery that I was referring to.
Are you saying that Mark Christ is more of a Patriot than any American Military man fightingh overseas today?
Yes or no question. bet you can't answer it.
smoking357 wrote:
Thank you sir for a first rate example of the blubbery that I was referring to.
Are you saying that Mark Christ is more of a Patriot than any American Military man fightingh overseas today?
Yes or no question. bet you can't answer it.
smoking357
Banned
imported post
nolacopusmc wrote:
Yes or no question. I'll bet you can't answer it.
nolacopusmc wrote:
Is eppl more klliy than heertb?
Yes or no question. I'll bet you can't answer it.
imported post
I agree government is too big. I think government should only do for the people what the people can not do for themselves. And before you go there, the people can not all defend themselves OCing. There are too many anti-gun, non-gun, and indifferent people in this country. Our definitions differ on "trampling people's rights". I do not have a problem with settlements as long as you do not take one and act like you won a moral victory for a cause other than yourself.
Good for you. Your sense of freedom must be totally dependent on your OC rights, then. How pathetic that must be.
Maybe so.
smoking357
Banned
imported post
derf wrote:
derf wrote:
It's not my job to stick my nose in someone else's business, and it's nobody's job to intrude in mine. Keep your hand out of my wallet and off my gun. Save me the money, and let me worry about my own defense. Police have no duty to defend me, anyway, so I'd rather save the cash and do the job myself.
nolacopusmc
Banned
imported post
smoking357 wrote:
Knew you couldn't answer it. Instead you posted .......I don't even know. guess that is why i am part of the bottom 99%.
smoking357 wrote:
Knew you couldn't answer it. Instead you posted .......I don't even know. guess that is why i am part of the bottom 99%.
Dustin
Regular Member
imported post
I think a big problem is that while it may be possible for an LEO to interupt and stop an OC.er simply for being a MWAG, the OC.er is not required to be polite and educational towards the LEO. Which is why the OC'er can just say Hi, I'm carrying for protection, goodbye. Which usually pisses the LEO off b/c he's not getting the respect he deserves.:uhoh:Usually anything beyond this part is BAD.
So if OC.ers were more educational friendly, they could avoid some situations, then again who job is that anyway ? I know most times I would rather be left alone, than have to stop, educate a an LEO, then go about my business. I'm RARELY by myself, I usally have my wife and kids in tow. That in itself is already enough to do let alone having to be stopped and asked
"Hey, why are you doing something that is legal ?"
Does that not seem aggravating ?
EDIT - BTW I've never had a negative exp with OC.ing. Although I've got the nod and half salute plenty from LEO's in Deridder Walmart, and Stine's a few times. Same with Lake Charles area LEO's.
Edit #2 - Also what would happen if every MWAG was completely ignored ?
I think a big problem is that while it may be possible for an LEO to interupt and stop an OC.er simply for being a MWAG, the OC.er is not required to be polite and educational towards the LEO. Which is why the OC'er can just say Hi, I'm carrying for protection, goodbye. Which usually pisses the LEO off b/c he's not getting the respect he deserves.:uhoh:Usually anything beyond this part is BAD.
So if OC.ers were more educational friendly, they could avoid some situations, then again who job is that anyway ? I know most times I would rather be left alone, than have to stop, educate a an LEO, then go about my business. I'm RARELY by myself, I usally have my wife and kids in tow. That in itself is already enough to do let alone having to be stopped and asked
"Hey, why are you doing something that is legal ?"
Does that not seem aggravating ?
EDIT - BTW I've never had a negative exp with OC.ing. Although I've got the nod and half salute plenty from LEO's in Deridder Walmart, and Stine's a few times. Same with Lake Charles area LEO's.
Edit #2 - Also what would happen if every MWAG was completely ignored ?
XD-GEM
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Dustin wrote:
MWAG calls should not be ignored, however, the 911 dispatchers should immediately ask, "What is the man doing with the gun?"
If the answer is anything threatening, then LEO should respond; if the answer is "Eating a hamburger with some other people," then there's no real reason for a response; and the dispatcher should tell the caller that.
Dustin wrote:
MWAG calls should not be ignored, however, the 911 dispatchers should immediately ask, "What is the man doing with the gun?"
If the answer is anything threatening, then LEO should respond; if the answer is "Eating a hamburger with some other people," then there's no real reason for a response; and the dispatcher should tell the caller that.
Dustin
Regular Member
imported post
XD-GEM wrote:
I'll agree to that.
But Imagine then what would happen if someone said Hey I just saw a gun under a guys shirt. That to me would be more of an alert than someone describing a normal OC.er.
XD-GEM wrote:
I'll agree to that.
But Imagine then what would happen if someone said Hey I just saw a gun under a guys shirt. That to me would be more of an alert than someone describing a normal OC.er.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Dustin wrote:
For myself, if I amdetained because a panty-wetter detected my CCd gun under a jacket or shirt, I plan to hammer hard on the fact that my jurisdiction issues something on the order of 2K CHPs every year. The most they can reasonably do is demand to see my CHP. And they had better be nice about it, given the likelihood of a well-groomed, cleanly dressed, non-furtive, adult male having a CHP.
Dustin wrote:
What exactly about a gun-under-a-shirt would be more of an alert?I am not saying you are wrong. But, realize that this is where Florida vs JL comesinto play.
For myself, if I amdetained because a panty-wetter detected my CCd gun under a jacket or shirt, I plan to hammer hard on the fact that my jurisdiction issues something on the order of 2K CHPs every year. The most they can reasonably do is demand to see my CHP. And they had better be nice about it, given the likelihood of a well-groomed, cleanly dressed, non-furtive, adult male having a CHP.
CaptainDan
Regular Member
imported post
Here is food for thought,
In all seriousness gentlemen let us not forget why we open carry in the first place.
Keep in mind Guys this IS ONLY MY OPINION and I am in no way trying to force my opinion down ANYONE'S throat.
It seems to me that if you are rude and basically an ass every time an uneducated officer or check out girl gives you grief eventually you will be percieved as a trouble maker, now, what if you have to use your fire arm to defend your life or the life of a loved one and some one dies (GOD FORBID IT COMES TO THAT)
Court ,as I have learned as have some of you I'm sure , isn't all ways afair fight,right doesn't all ways prevail. Sometimes sadly it comes down to who has the better lawyer,most money,(to miss work for multiple court dates)and when put to a jury your integrity as well as character among other things are most certainly brought into question. If I have to end a threat with my side arm and wind up in court I do most certainly not want to be percieved as a loud mouth trouble maker looking for a fight. I posted my situation "Detained in Home Depot" and how I handled it. Politely, FIRMLY, but without drawing unnessary attention to myself. I did not by any means let it go,I brought the laws to the attention of those who were uneducated to the law (in written form)and left with a feeling of justness. Job done , mission complete. Now if I end up in court I can call the 2 officers involvedif I need to , to attest to my demeanor, I was neither rude or uncooperative. Both of which would speak well of me in court. Now keep in mind that worked for me , I was not raped and my daughter didn't watch Swat shove guns in my face .I wasn't cuffed and thrown in jail. If that happened to Me I would probably be the biggest ass on this forum,but it didn't. Also (I know I'm gonna catch it for this) All law enforcement arent the devil.Many of them are actually decent honest men who want to help.After all the police accademy teaches them offensive driving, basic hand to hand , proper paperwork technics, etc. if they knew allthe laws they would have to have gone to law school for many years instaed of a couple weeks of accademy.,there are Jerks in every walk of life ,a jerk with a gun and a superior attitude (little mans disease) as well as an amount of authority, I'll admitis a particular pain for people like us.But I have had officers admire my XDM and evenask to see it. After all, lets be honest, if your wife orloved onewerethe victim of violent crime as mine were (With all my heart I hope it never happens to any ofyou) who woulkd you call? Right, the poilice and they would do every thing in their power to punish those responsible. If you can get the facts out, your point across, and law brought to light without being seen as an ass, why not? If you are pushed, by all means push back. Who has ever heard , "you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar" If someone you detest is right, you will not consider his side no matter how right he is.
Any way most of us don't open carry to make a statement, get attention or piss off the powers that be and I don't think most of us leave the house hoping some uneducated cop will harass us so we can cause a scene.
Any way , lets remember gentlemen, we open carry , bring deadly force for a reason.If you end up in court , and if you use deadly force you most certainly will. How will you be percieved? What will the prosecuter tell the jury about you? Law abiding citizen or trouble maker allways up for a fight?
Just somthing to think about the next time Barney Fife wants to feel big and make you feel small.
TAKE IT EASY ON ME GUYS, JUST VOICEING THE VIEW FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF THE WORLD.
Here is food for thought,
In all seriousness gentlemen let us not forget why we open carry in the first place.
Keep in mind Guys this IS ONLY MY OPINION and I am in no way trying to force my opinion down ANYONE'S throat.
It seems to me that if you are rude and basically an ass every time an uneducated officer or check out girl gives you grief eventually you will be percieved as a trouble maker, now, what if you have to use your fire arm to defend your life or the life of a loved one and some one dies (GOD FORBID IT COMES TO THAT)
Court ,as I have learned as have some of you I'm sure , isn't all ways afair fight,right doesn't all ways prevail. Sometimes sadly it comes down to who has the better lawyer,most money,(to miss work for multiple court dates)and when put to a jury your integrity as well as character among other things are most certainly brought into question. If I have to end a threat with my side arm and wind up in court I do most certainly not want to be percieved as a loud mouth trouble maker looking for a fight. I posted my situation "Detained in Home Depot" and how I handled it. Politely, FIRMLY, but without drawing unnessary attention to myself. I did not by any means let it go,I brought the laws to the attention of those who were uneducated to the law (in written form)and left with a feeling of justness. Job done , mission complete. Now if I end up in court I can call the 2 officers involvedif I need to , to attest to my demeanor, I was neither rude or uncooperative. Both of which would speak well of me in court. Now keep in mind that worked for me , I was not raped and my daughter didn't watch Swat shove guns in my face .I wasn't cuffed and thrown in jail. If that happened to Me I would probably be the biggest ass on this forum,but it didn't. Also (I know I'm gonna catch it for this) All law enforcement arent the devil.Many of them are actually decent honest men who want to help.After all the police accademy teaches them offensive driving, basic hand to hand , proper paperwork technics, etc. if they knew allthe laws they would have to have gone to law school for many years instaed of a couple weeks of accademy.,there are Jerks in every walk of life ,a jerk with a gun and a superior attitude (little mans disease) as well as an amount of authority, I'll admitis a particular pain for people like us.But I have had officers admire my XDM and evenask to see it. After all, lets be honest, if your wife orloved onewerethe victim of violent crime as mine were (With all my heart I hope it never happens to any ofyou) who woulkd you call? Right, the poilice and they would do every thing in their power to punish those responsible. If you can get the facts out, your point across, and law brought to light without being seen as an ass, why not? If you are pushed, by all means push back. Who has ever heard , "you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar" If someone you detest is right, you will not consider his side no matter how right he is.
Any way most of us don't open carry to make a statement, get attention or piss off the powers that be and I don't think most of us leave the house hoping some uneducated cop will harass us so we can cause a scene.
Any way , lets remember gentlemen, we open carry , bring deadly force for a reason.If you end up in court , and if you use deadly force you most certainly will. How will you be percieved? What will the prosecuter tell the jury about you? Law abiding citizen or trouble maker allways up for a fight?
Just somthing to think about the next time Barney Fife wants to feel big and make you feel small.
TAKE IT EASY ON ME GUYS, JUST VOICEING THE VIEW FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF THE WORLD.
Dustin
Regular Member
imported post
Citizen wrote:
More alert being that thugs do not have a tendency to OC.
Citizen wrote:
More alert being that thugs do not have a tendency to OC.