Observations on OC in LA

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I am a LA resident and I consider myself a pro-gun person. I own guns, shoot guns, buy/sell guns, OC sometimes, CC sometimes.
To me a gun can be a tool and/or a toy. A gun can be used to do a job or for recreation, or both. A gun can give me more confidence in certain situations. I appreciate the opportunity to OC and consider it a privilege. OC for me is about being able to carry a defensive tool.

The comments of some on this forum lead me to believe that for them OC is about ego. They don't see themselves as an individual who helps make up a society. They see society as something that works against them. They come off as paranoid, inflammatory, anti-government, and anti-social. It is all about them. They don't want to work to make society better. They want to complain about how society treats them. These kinds of people are bad for gun rights. It is these kinds of people who will say and do things that will have a negative effect on gun rights.

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derf wrote:

I am a LA resident and I consider myself a pro-gun person. I own guns, shoot guns, buy/sell guns, OC sometimes, CC sometimes.
To me a gun can be a tool and/or a toy. A gun can be used to do a job or for recreation, or both. A gun can give me more confidence in certain situations. I appreciate the opportunity to OC and consider it a privilege. OC for me is about being able to carry a defensive tool.

The comments of some on this forum lead me to believe that for them OC is about ego. They don't see themselves as an individual who helps make up a society. They see society as something that works against them. They come off as paranoid, inflammatory, anti-government, and anti-social. It is all about them. They don't want to work to make society better. They want to complain about how society treats them. These kinds of people are bad for gun rights. It is these kinds of people who will say and do things that will have a negative effect on gun rights.

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Oh damn, now you have awakened the beast. :shock:

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derf wrote:

They don't see themselves as an individual who helps make up a society.

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Collectivism.

http://www.amazon.com/Takes-Village-Hillary-Rodham-Clinton/dp/0684825457

While a century of taxation has beaten the Americanism out of us, I yet know that I am not bound to you.

The individual is paramount.

It is all about them. They don't want to work to make society better.

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Absolutely, and what you call "society," is a fiction for individuals working for their own interests. Service of "society" is Leftism.

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smoking357 wrote:

derf wrote:

They don't see themselves as an individual who helps make up a society.

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Collectivism.

http://www.amazon.com/Takes-Village-Hillary-Rodham-Clinton/dp/0684825457

While a century of taxation has beaten the Americanism out of us, I yet know that I am not bound to you.

It is all about them. They don't want to work to make society better.

Click to expand...

Absolutely, and what you call "society," is a fiction for individuals working for their own interests. Service of "society" is Leftism.

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So, I'm a leftist-fascist?



A society is made up of individuals.

The individual is paramount.

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You are making my point about ego.

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I couldn't agree more! The way we present ouselves has a very broad impact upon the gun community as a whole.

Obviously, the core of our problems OC and CC is public perception, right? Even LEO's perception seems to come into the game. I just don't honestly understand the logic of giving gun owners such a bad name. What does one hope to accomplish? Change? Howis making yourself look to be the bad guy in the eyes of public scrutiny exactly supposed to garner the desired change in perception? You honestly think that jumping around and making an @___ out of yourself is going to change the mind of an anti-gun nut? You think they're going to sit there, watch the news and think to themselves..."hmmm...that poor guy with a gun"?

I said it in another thread here recently.... We can present ourselves and our choices to carry in a positive light as simply a peaceful, law abiding American citizen chosing to protect himself and his family OR we can paint ourselves into the gun-toting wack job image we've worked so hard to shed.

I, for one, prefer to be an ambassador to our cause, not part of the problem.

I also think it's important to keep in mind, that there are always people who will look for, pardon the pun, but, look for ammunition against us politically. Why give it to them on a silver platter? Everytime we take that "I"m special, look at me" agressive stance, even here on these forums, we do just that. Keep in mind, it's not impossible or even unheard of for the media to scan these forums in search a story. Imagine the slant they can put on our community here based on the behavior of some recently! :what:

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JeepSeller wrote:

I couldn't agree more! The way we present ouselves has a very broad impact upon the gun community as a whole.

Obviously, the core of our problems OC and CC is public perception, right? Even LEO's perception seems to come into the game. I just don't honestly understand the logic of giving gun owners such a bad name. What does one hope to accomplish? Change? Howis making yourself look to be the bad guy in the eyes of public scrutiny exactly supposed to garner the desired change in perception? You honestly think that jumping around and making an @___ out of yourself is going to change the mind of an anti-gun nut? You think they're going to sit there, watch the news and think to themselves..."hmmm...that poor guy with a gun"?

I said it in another thread here recently.... We can present ourselves and our choices to carry in a positive light as simply a peaceful, law abiding American citizen chosing to protect himself and his family OR we can paint ourselves into the gun-toting wack job image we've worked so hard to shed.

I, for one, prefer to be an ambassador to our cause, not part of the problem.

I also think it's important to keep in mind, that there are always people who will look for, pardon the pun, but, look for ammunition against us politically. Why give it to them on a silver platter? Everytime we take that "I"m special, look at me" agressive stance, even here on these forums, we do just that. Keep in mind, it's not impossible or even unheard of for the media to scan these forums in search a story. Imagine the slant they can put on our community here based on the behavior of some recently! :what:

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Well put.

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nolacopusmc wrote:

derf wrote:

I am a LA resident and I consider myself a pro-gun person. I own guns, shoot guns, buy/sell guns, OC sometimes, CC sometimes.
To me a gun can be a tool and/or a toy. A gun can be used to do a job or for recreation, or both. A gun can give me more confidence in certain situations. I appreciate the opportunity to OC and consider it a privilege. OC for me is about being able to carry a defensive tool.

The comments of some on this forum lead me to believe that for them OC is about ego. They don't see themselves as an individual who helps make up a society. They see society as something that works against them. They come off as paranoid, inflammatory, anti-government, and anti-social. It is all about them. They don't want to work to make society better. They want to complain about how society treats them. These kinds of people are bad for gun rights. It is these kinds of people who will say and do things that will have a negative effect on gun rights.

Click to expand...

Oh damn, now you have awakened the beast. :shock:

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Would you expect any different when a claim that a Right is viewed as a privilege is made?

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derf wrote:

smoking357 wrote:

derf wrote:

They don't see themselves as an individual who helps make up a society.

Click to expand...

Collectivism.

http://www.amazon.com/Takes-Village-Hillary-Rodham-Clinton/dp/0684825457

While a century of taxation has beaten the Americanism out of us, I yet know that I am not bound to you.

It is all about them. They don't want to work to make society better.

Click to expand...

Absolutely, and what you call "society," is a fiction for individuals working for their own interests. Service of "society" is Leftism.

Click to expand...

So, I'm a leftist-fascist?



A society is made up of individuals.

The individual is paramount.

Click to expand...

You are making my point about ego.

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O.K. Let's play "repeat the passage that was posted, but ignored."

What you call "society," is a fiction for individuals working for their own interests.

What is wrong with ego? 'Ego' in Latin means 'I.' I can't think of anything else a person should mind than his own business.

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Definition of society:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/society

What is wrong with ego is that what people like you and MEM do to boost your own egos is bad for the OC cause.
OCing makes some people feel powerful, it is an ego maniacal stimulus for them. They don't OC for protection. They OC so they can feel superior.
Then they post on forums about how great they are and how stupid other people are. You can read the narcissism in their posts. They are indignant, condescending, and self-serving. They can't relate to fellow people because they think are above everyone else. Eventually they get banned from forums because the content they post is obviously not helpful to anyone.
People who OC to feel superior are a detriment to the OC cause and to gun owners in general.

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derf wrote:

OCing makes some people feel powerful, it is an ego maniacal stimulus for them. They don't OC for protection. They OC so they can feel superior.
Then they post on forums about how great they are and how stupid other people are. You can read the narcissism in their posts. They are indignant, condescending, and self-serving. They can't relate to fellow people because they think are above everyone else. Eventually they get banned from forums because the content they post is obviously not helpful to anyone.
People who OC to feel superior are a detriment to the OC cause and to gun owners in general.

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Did you ever think that the bottom 99% can't stand the top 1%? In schools, the dumb despise the smart. Communitarians hate the individual. The weak despise the strong.

Envy is a failing in human natute.

As to the feelings OC'ing supposedly brings, see "projection." You might have some unresolved issues.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/projection.htm

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smoking357 wrote:

derf wrote:

OCing makes some people feel powerful, it is an ego maniacal stimulus for them. They don't OC for protection. They OC so they can feel superior.
Then they post on forums about how great they are and how stupid other people are. You can read the narcissism in their posts. They are indignant, condescending, and self-serving. They can't relate to fellow people because they think are above everyone else. Eventually they get banned from forums because the content they post is obviously not helpful to anyone.
People who OC to feel superior are a detriment to the OC cause and to gun owners in general.

Click to expand...

Did you ever think that the bottom 99% can't stand the top 1%? In schools, the dumb despise the smart. Communitarians hate the individual. The weak despise the strong.

Envy is a failing in human natute.

As to the feelings OC'ing supposedly brings, see "projection." You might have some unresolved issues.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/projection.htm

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:monkey:monkey:monkey:monkey

You monkeys are the top 1%. LOL

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Did you ever think that the bottom 99% can't stand the top 1%? In schools, the dumb despise the smart. Communitarians hate the individual. The weak despise the strong.

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I feel safer when I carry, not superior.

What, exactly puts you in the top 1%?

Why do you feel superior?

Is your IQ in the top 1%? Your income? Your intellect?

Why do the other 99% disagree with you?

Why do you find yourself banned from forums? Are you not able to back up your arguments with facts?

I have issues with fountains of misinformation. I ask you questions. For the most part, you dodge the questions or deflect them with some rhetoric. The more you post the more you reveal yourself.

This is not a personal attack. I am asking you to elaborate on your posts. I am not calling you names.

BTW, I CC more than I OC. That way, I have it if I need it but I don't feel the need to show it off to anyone.

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derf wrote:

What, exactly puts you in the top 1%?

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Eh?

Dude, seriously...

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Eh? Dude, seriously...

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Eh, what?

I asked you some questions, based on your post above.

Answer, dodge, deflect, whatever, but you implied that you are in the top 1% of something. I asked what and how.

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derf wrote:

I appreciate the opportunity to OC and consider it a privilege.

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And this is exactly the problem - if you consider the right to carry a privilege, then you concede tothe police and government generally the power to "confront" you for exercising your privilege in a place that some person or persons happens to arbitrarily decide that your kind is not wanted.

If racial minorities kept putting up with this years ago, the water fountains would still be segregated today.

Having said that, there is no reason to be a nasty person while OCing or to instigate problems - a successful OCer is usually not noticed or by the time she is noticed, has moved on about her business or simply accepted as minding her own business and being normal by the people around her. This type of OCer helps the cause as hundreds or thousands of people are exposed to the reality that fellow citizens do carry guns in daily life, that nothing bad happens, that they appear otherwise normal, nobody calls the police or gets scared, and life goes on.

I have open carried extensive in VA, PA, NC, WV, OH, and KY and have never been bothered (unless you count an "eye roll" one time in WalMart by a Fairfax County police officer) by police or really anybody else even when walking right past them or speaking at a podium in public meeting (e.g., city council meeting), in a traffic stop, buyong beer or groceries at various grocery stores, Starbucks, gun shops, etc.

But if a police officer or anybody else ever unlawfully detains or searches me while I am minding my own business just because i am carrying a gun, I will sue them in their individual and official capacities and seek damages and other relief from them and the locality or agency which employs them -I will FOIA them, investigate them, get the matter into the press, depose them, force them to disclose documents, build a website about them and the case, etc., and trust me, they are not going to like it and neither will their superiors or their superior's political masters.

THIS, is not being mean spirited - this is doing your duty to support gun rights and the American way of life generally. If you are singled out by police because you are open carrying and your rights infringed in any way, take it seriously and find a good lawyer in your state to bring suit - in many cases, this can be done on a contingency basis.

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THANK YOU, MIKE, for reiterating what I've been saying, with zero success.
I've even used the water fountain comparison.

You may want to rethink your option of suing, as that would take away from your pure motive of promoting OC. At least that's what some on this board think.
You're supposed to suffer being violated and not seek redress in a civil court of law.

For whatever reasons, too many here continue to view government as some sort of "issuer of rights." Why we have so many CC'ers on a board titled OPEN carry is beyond me.

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Stated"perfectly" !

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Amen brother in arms.

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Mike wrote:

derf wrote:

I appreciate the opportunity to OC and consider it a privilege.

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Having said that, there is no reason to be a nasty person while OCing or to instigate problems - a successful OCer is usually not noticed or by the time she is noticed, has moved on about her business or simply accepted as minding her own business and being normal by the people around her. This type of OCer helps the cause as hundreds or thousands of people are exposed to the reality that fellow citizens do carry guns in daily life, that nothing bad happens, that they appear otherwise normal, nobody calls the police or gets scared, and life goes on.

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That is the problem that some people have with others on here. IF that is what they did, what you described above, then we would all be on the same team regardless of how we carry.

Some people's tactics, while still striving for the same goal, are counterproductive and hurt GUN OWNERS.

That is why people take issue with some here and elsewhere.

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derf wrote:

I appreciate the opportunity to OC and consider it a privilege.

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So this must mean that you DO NOT believe that the 2A gives us a "RIGHT to Keep and Bear Arms".

Am I correct?

Otherwise how can a "Right" be a "Privilege"? :?