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Thread: Where is OC going? What can be done to help the cause?

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    Realistically, where do you see OC going in the future?

    How would you like to see the laws change?

    What does the public perception of OC have to do with OC now and in the future?

    What would be your ideal American government?

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    Unfortunately, if people like we sometimes see on here keep making the spotlight and making a living suing the government, it may go away. Unlikely, but it could happen.

    i think it will be an all or nothing. I personally hope it becomes an ALL. More realistically, if we keep losing out rights, we may see them legislate OC away with all the firearms.

    Then MEM and his crew will have to kill all the cops who stop them to violate what rights they have left.

    i think the assualt on our firearms will not happen until Obama's second term. And yes, he will get it. That is when we will see the real fun start.

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    nolacopusmc wrote:
    Unfortunately, if people like we sometimes see on here keep making the spotlight and making a living suing the government, it may go away. Unlikely, but it could happen.
    So the government either gets to terrorize you, or it takes all your rights away?

    i think the assualt on our firearms will not happen until Obama's second term. And yes, he will get it. That is when we will see the real fun start.
    It's not Obama or his ilk who worries me the most.

    And if he does something, say, ban all guns, just what do you think the citizenry should do?

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    And if he does something, say, ban all guns, just what do you think the citizenry should do?
    Elect you and MEM.


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    derf wrote:
    And if he does something, say, ban all guns, just what do you think the citizenry should do?
    Elect you and MEM.
    While possible, it is highly unlikely that will happen. i think if a blanket ban were done, then that would most certainly result in the beginnings of a true revolution....excatly what the Second Ammendment was created for.

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    nolacopusmc wrote:
    derf wrote:
    And if he does something, say, ban all guns, just what do you think the citizenry should do?
    Elect you and MEM.
    While possible, it is highly unlikely that will happen. i think if a blanket ban were done, then that would most certainly result in the beginnings of a true revolution....excatly what the Second Ammendment was created for.
    Yup, personally I think they're not that stupid, they won't ever out-right ban guns instantly, it'll be done like it was in Europe. Slowly chipping away at the lesser-used rights, until finally there's nothing left.

    Edit: Which is another reason I OC, even if proven to be a detriment to my health (and we've already had that discussion) if we don't use it/defend it, they'll legislate it away.

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    Oscarr wrote:
    nolacopusmc wrote:
    derf wrote:
    And if he does something, say, ban all guns, just what do you think the citizenry should do?
    Elect you and MEM.
    While possible, it is highly unlikely that will happen. i think if a blanket ban were done, then that would most certainly result in the beginnings of a true revolution....excatly what the Second Ammendment was created for.
    Yup, personally I think they're not that stupid, they won't ever out-right ban guns instantly, it'll be done like it was in Europe. Slowly chipping away at the lesser-used rights, until finally there's nothing left.

    Edit: Which is another reason I OC, even if proven to be a detriment to my health (and we've already had that discussion) if we don't use it/defend it, they'll legislate it away.
    I understand and agree with that logic to an extent, but history has also proven that no matter how much we use a right, if they have it in their mind to do away with it, they will.

    kinda like the 1st. Try hangin a noose on your porch, or making a statement about Obama, and see if you do not get attention.

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    nolacopusmc wrote:
    derf wrote:
    And if he does something, say, ban all guns, just what do you think the citizenry should do?
    Elect you and MEM.
    While possible, it is highly unlikely that will happen. i think if a blanket ban were done, then that would most certainly result in the beginnings of a true revolution....excatly what the Second Ammendment was created for.
    Quite right; which is why you will see only attempts at international treaties or national incremental steps, as happened in England, Australia, and Canada (although there has been some popular backlash in Canada). I remember reading somewhere a quote from one of the leading gun-banners saying incremental steps were the only way to do it. (If I could remember enough about the quote, I'd Google it and post. Maybe this jars someone else's memory?)

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    XD-GEM wrote:
    nolacopusmc wrote:
    derf wrote:
    And if he does something, say, ban all guns, just what do you think the citizenry should do?
    Elect you and MEM.
    While possible, it is highly unlikely that will happen. i think if a blanket ban were done, then that would most certainly result in the beginnings of a true revolution....excatly what the Second Ammendment was created for.
    Quite right; which is why you will see only attempts at international treaties or national incremental steps, as happened in England, Australia, and Canada (although there has been some popular backlash in Canada). I remember reading somewhere a quote from one of the leading gun-banners saying incremental steps were the only way to do it. (If I could remember enough about the quote, I'd Google it and post. Maybe this jars someone else's memory?)
    That's how the government has been doing it all for hundred of years now.

    Look at how current taxes came about especially income tax.

    Our Gun Right freedoms have been under DIRECT attack for a few hundred years. In fact the NRA helped that along with the NFA of 1934 on Fully Automatic Machine Guns.

    It's been speeding along ever since ..... Just chip, chip chipping away at the foundation, eventually the house will collapse and all hell will break loose...



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    XD-GEM wrote:
    nolacopusmc wrote:
    derf wrote:
    And if he does something, say, ban all guns, just what do you think the citizenry should do?
    Elect you and MEM.
    While possible, it is highly unlikely that will happen. i think if a blanket ban were done, then that would most certainly result in the beginnings of a true revolution....excatly what the Second Ammendment was created for.
    Quite right; which is why you will see only attempts at international treaties or national incremental steps, as happened in England, Australia, and Canada (although there has been some popular backlash in Canada). I remember reading somewhere a quote from one of the leading gun-banners saying incremental steps were the only way to do it. (If I could remember enough about the quote, I'd Google it and post. Maybe this jars someone else's memory?)
    Here's one of many:

    "Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal." Janet Reno :shock:

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    I also read a quote (I will have to try and find it of course, for proof) but it was from a professor at Harvard who was teaching other would-be teachers, and I'm paraphrasing here but he said: "You have to realize that when you're in school and teaching, all the kids coming to you have mental problems, they have been indoctrinated by religious people, gun rights people, and people 'proud' of being american - it's your job to prepare them and mold them to become world citizens".

    My jaw dropped when I read that, but that's how they're gonna do it, a 2-pronged attack: Slowly chip away at our rights over time, and indoctrinate our kids in public school, so the next generation will ASK for the rights to be taken away.

    As to the original post/questions:

    Realistically, where do you see OC going in the future?
    REALISTICALLY? I don't see it going much of any where, there's all this talk about a huge influx of CCW permit apps, why don't those people just OC (if nothing else, at least while waiting on their permit). Lots of people don't know it's legal - needs to be talked about openly more, on prime time, not just a few small local newspapers. HOPEFULLY more people will do it, and it'll become common place, and thus, a safer state.

    How would you like to see the laws change?
    No permit needed to carry concealed, carry a gun however you want, I honestly don't see why I need permission to put something UNDER my clothing, but it's ok to have it on TOP of my clothing. No restrictions on where you can carry either, I advocate personal responsibility. Let people do whatever they want, just hold them accountable to their actions. If someone is stupid enough to get drunk while carrying and shoots someone - execute them. But don't punish me cause of what someone else MIGHT do. I'm perfectly capable of going into a bar for a good time with some friends, having a couple drinks withOUT getting drunk, and then going home - I've done it plenty of times.

    Let me carry a gun to school, let the teachers carry. Ever heard the saying "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." If some nut-job walks into a school with the intent to kill people, he should only be able to get ONE shot off before everyone else turns on him and blasts him away. No words on a piece of paper will keep someone from going to a school and shooting people, it only keeps the law abiding people from being able to defend themselves.

    What does the public perception of OC have to do with OC now and in the future?
    Again, it needs to be practiced more or it will be legislated away. I think it was nola who said that regardless if they want to ban something, they will anyway. To a degree I agree, but we've seen the people cry out and stop stuff too - like when we overloaded the DC phone system with calls against ammnesty. But if only a FEW people are pro-OC then ya, it could be taken away from us without an upcry of protest from many people.

    What would be your ideal American government?
    Well, I honestly don't think we should discuss this here as it relates to mannnnyyy things other than just OC and is prolly just gonna lead to a lot of arguments / "heated discussions" buuuttt since you asked...

    The people that hate this country and are scared of personal responsibility/want the government to run their lives should just go to Europe. That won't happen so honestly I'd really like to see the country split assuming we can't get rid of the federal . For lack of better terms you'd have the "liberal states of america" and the "traditional/conversvative/founding-principle states or america". We really are too big, with too many things that people will NEVER agree on, not just gun rights, but things like homosexuality, abortion, foreign policy, environment, etc etc.

    IDEALLY I would like to see each state be it's own country. And "The United States" would be only for the states coming together to DEFEND against attacks on any of the states by a foreign country. That's it. Everything else is up to each individual state, and people could move to whichever state was more inline with their personal views. Everyone wins.

    Edit: Sorry for all the edits, trying to refine some thoughts, catch spelling errors, etc. This is really only the tip of the iceburg on these subjects, an introductory 'sentence' in a 1000 page essay.



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    WHAT CAN BE DONE TO HELP THE CAUSE ?

    Here is my .02

    Every OCer take responsibility for His own community. Carry your gun EVERY WHERE you go. Let every one see it, every time.

    Be a walking bill board. Advertise, T-shirts, hats, etc. are available on this very site that convey our message (OC is legal) And no I don't work for this site and make no profit off their sales.

    Lets get together, decide on a symbol, or standard, whatever and print bumper stickers then slap one on your vehicle. I can print them on my computer, T-shirts too. As any one with a printer and a screen print program can. It just needs to be a recognizable symbol (the NRA does it, you see NRA stickers,hats,shirts every where)

    Organize 2 meet ups a year, one during the week and one on a weekend.If we had 400 OCers at a cook out I GAURANTEE the media would notice. Take out an add in the paper (what $12.00 ?) announcing the event.

    Just like ithas heen said many times, seeing the same thing over and over "desencatizes" the act, making the odd common place.

    Every one of us is allready OC loyal, WE are not the problem. Educating the masses should be the mission.

    If you don't mind being hassaled, do nothing. I don't like it , I got a couple of OC shirts and will sport them every where I can . Would like to do more but can't do it alone, we need to be more organized.

    If the spotted oh no bird can have it's own organized foundation, why can't WE?

    (I made the oh no bird thing up as an example, but you know what I mean)

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    If it's going to be 2 meets a year, can we have one in north LA? or at least towards the middle.

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    No attack from me. I don't think I fall into "the smallminded bayoushooter, CC types" category. I don't see myself as small minded. I do post on bs.com sometimes. I do CC sometimes, but I do not have a CC permit.

    I OC sometimes. That doesn't make me a wannabe or poser. I think public perception is important. I think irresponsible behavior by OCers will have a negative effect on OC. I think if a few nutcases cause trouble while OCing then the anti-gun lobby will use them as an excuse to close "the OC loophole". That is why I am so very critical of planned trips to businesses and sensationalized accounts of those visits. I agree "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost" but I also think a right abused will be a right taken away.
    "Acclimating the sheeple of Amerika" while spouting anti-government rhetoric is not going to work. Striking fear into "the sheeple" will not carry the flag for OC.

    What is best for OC is OCers who behave responsibly and respect others ("the sheeple") and the authorities.



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    I believe that the fourth question the OP asked was the key question to answer the other three. The ideal Government would be the one that those great Men created - a Republic based on the Constitution of the United States of America.



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    Man, you guys are killing Me.

    This is probably OC's biggest obstacle. Instead of Rallying to the cause We rip each other to shreds.

    I agree the meet ups need NOT BE political ,or anti government , or anti anything for that matter.

    Instead , like minded free men(and women)having a cook out, turket shoot, whatever! Just Open carrying. Why not organize events, outings etc.? Not to piss any body off but to be seen as regular people who choose to excersize our right to OC.

    We are so busy with petty namecalling and bickering We have lost sight of a REAL issue.

    I'm not casting stones and am in no way singleing any one out but JEESE!

    Wanna OC with out B.S. or not? Lets make people see us in a positive light instead of a bunch of whack jobs.

    Hate the Gov? Great !

    Love the Gov? wonderful!

    Can't We have a get together as just OCers ? Not a rally, just a meet up.

    How many company picnics have you ate potatoe salad standing next to a muslum? Hindu ? Whatever.

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    I wasn't calling you a whack job nor insulting your views, I merely meant if we gather and act like asses, it will hurt our cause. I suggest we all leave other agendas at the door and have an OC meet up for the purpose of OC and nothing ealse.

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    I hate cats but do not condem you for loving the worthless, smelly, rat lookin wastes of fur, however we , as far as I know don't carry cats on our belts in public. Therefor our difference on cats doesn't matter, does it?

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    "Irresponsible behavior." Again, you won't come right out and say it, but I will. No, exercising a right is NOT that at all.
    An example of irresponsible behavior would be OCing in Wal Mart and not leaving when asked to leave. I can point to a recent case. The OCer did not understand his right to OC and where the boundaries are. He acted irresponsibly and was arrested and prosecuted. I know you, Mr. M, know better. But, this isn't alwasys about you.

    Go ahead, refer to me, Anthony and Double J as "nutcases." Your opinion doesn't matter at all. There is no "OC loophole." That's about what I've come to expect from CC / bayoushooter-type folks. Open carry, unlike CC, is a RIGHT, get over it.
    I did not directly refer to you or anyone else specifically as nutcases, although I admit my opinion leans that way sometimes. There are some nutcases on bayoushooter, too, I'm sure.
    Legally there is no "OC loophole" but you can bet the farm that "the sheeple" see OC as a loophole or throwback from the days of the Wild West. If you don't think some negative publicity could sink OC for all of us then you are just in denial. Articles, sections, laws, verdicts, opinions, and sentiment will be useless if the issue is thrust upon the legislature and they vote to end OC in LA. I don't think a majority of "the sheeple" are pro-OC and therefore I think we (OCers) should tread lightly. Otherwise there will come a day when we have the OC right taken from us.
    I hope I'm wrong and it never happens.

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    If we turn a friendly law abiding OC meet up into an anti Gov Rally, were all fuc%@#

    Not going to the meet up to over throw the Gov. just have lunch with good people who think like me.

    We'll over throw the Gov. next time.

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    You're correct. We SHOULD rally behind OC, but not the NRA sanitized version. I just cannot understand why so many who CLAIM to support OC get so worked up when we DO oc. Either you support OC or you don't, get your arse off the fence.
    I support OC. But I don't support it in exactly the same way you do. I don't get worked up when you do it. It is what you do WHILE you are OCing that affects others' right to OC.

    Anyone who still supports the government of THIS country cannot, with a straight face, claim to be a real, genuine, honest-to-goodness supporter of gun rights. Are you referring to the very government which is trying to SQUASH your right to carry? LOL, just too funny.
    Sorry, but I still believe America (with Obama) is still better than most other places I could go. Otherwise, we are all free to leave America.

    Whack jobs? Yea, most Amerikan sheeple would consider me to be just that. I wear that title proudly.
    You said it. I can agree with that somewhat.






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    CaptainDan wrote:
    If we turn a friendly law abiding OC meet up into an anti Gov Rally, were all fuc%@#

    Not going to the meet up to over throw the Gov. just have lunch with good people who think like me.

    We'll over throw the Gov. next time.
    LOL, next time.

    I agree with that.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    It's quite easy to consider people like me whackjobs or nutjobs.
    That's due to your own lack of knowledge and/or worship of the institution of state.

    HOPEFULLY, after much real life experiences and living with eyes wide open, you TOO, will realize I've been speaking the truth all along and it won't sound or come across as so "far out."

    If I don't teach you kids anything else, let it be this: the legislature CANNOT "close the OC loophole" for two reasons.
    1. it's a right beyond their reach;
    2. it would require a constitutional convention, with a very, very, very, very, an almost non-existent chance of happening. Just admit it. We (me and the few other real OC'ers) have a RIGHT guaranteed under article 1 sec 11 to bear arms, not owing it's existence to anyone.
    Nobody has to approve of OC in order for any of us TO OC. Quit whining about jeopardizing anything, this is beginning to sound like an NRA forum.


    We will see about that. Many things were out of their reach, and they still happened.

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    The way you are informing a business that open carry is your constitutional right we will start seeing them exercise their rights ---NO SMOKING-NO OPEN CARRY

    Then you can open carry at home and in your truck but no where else



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    NAT wrote:
    The way you are informing a business that open carry is your constitutional right we will start seeing them exercise their rights ---NO SMOKING-NO OPEN CARRY

    Then you can open carry at home and in your truck but no where else

    According to mem, and he is never wrong, we are all just crazy, private property owners have no rights. His right to OC trumps what you can tell him to do or not do on YOUR property.

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