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Thread: Meijer no longer OC friendly.

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    I can't go too much into detail on this in case further legal action occurs. I was shopping with my 6 yr old daughter when this happened. My firearm was returned and I was allowed to leave without any charges. I was able to digitally record about half of the encounter, but unfortunately all the good statements by the officers were made before tape was rolling. Needless to say, Meijer will not be getting any more of my money until they straighten out their branches on their policies. I need a good, gun friendly attorney in the Saint Clair county area, any suggestions?
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    IMMEDIATELY FOIA the entire encounter. It is likely that they audio recorded the incident, although some departments erase recordings as soon as 2 weeks after they are recorded.

    Also, if it was on Meijer's property, they almost definitely also have video of it as well, but they might erase even faster than the police. Asking if they have footage should be your very first concern.

    As far as attorneys, Dean Greenblat is the best one in this area that I know of. He's representing theszerdi, and I can personally assure you that he's extremely competent with gun laws, and friendly towards OCers, although he isnt' interested in OCing himself. His number is posted in the info thread, and here it is again for convenience. 248 644 7520
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    thanks michigander. and it would seem we need to have an OC picnic in Marysville
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    I realize you can't discuss details....but what balls by the police to sneak up and disarm you!!!!
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    I realize you can't discuss details....but what balls by the police to sneak up and disarm you!!!!
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Jblack44 wrote:
    I realize you can't discuss details..
    Damn straight. I'd keep this one as quiet as possible if you're considering legal action.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    thanks michigander. and it would seem we need to have an OC picnic in Marysville
    If I were going to organize it, I would instead do a litter clean up, followed by taking pictures with the trash and maybe a banner in front of the police department.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Jblack44 wrote:
    I realize you can't discuss details....but what balls by the police to sneak up and disarm you!!!!
    yes, it is a ballsy move to sneak up on someone with a gun. i wonder if that's how they are trained or if they need some remedial training. and yes, it's always best not to discuss specifics online until everything is in the clear.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    BTW, it's interesting to note that i was sarcastically asked if i was in the Michigan militia or if i was "wolverine". i'm not in the militia... but maybe they read the report on the people who like guns and vote for third party candidates.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    ttt (for ron)
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    BTW, it's interesting to note that i was sarcastically asked if i was in the Michigan militia or if i was "wolverine". i'm not in the militia... but maybe they read the report on the people who like guns and vote for third party candidates.
    Disgusting.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    MOC has sent a complaint to the chief and city manager.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Constitutionally speaking, and according to federal law, you are part of the unorganized militia. That is a fact. But so is the smart ass who asked you that question.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Just curious, what type of holster were you using?

    -Richard-

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    office888 wrote:
    Just curious, what type of holster were you using?

    -Richard-
    an uncle mike's kydex paddle holster. even without a serpa style release, it took him a few tugs to get it loose. i'm not a fan of having to use a button to draw my gun and this holster is a good compromise.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Sorry this happened to you. Especially in front of your daughter. I have a 7 year old and I imagine this would be difficult to explain. It's too bad for our youngsters when the police represent improper behavior toward law-abiding citizens. How is she supposed to witness what happened to her daddy and still develop a trust for law enforcement? Sorry kids, even the nice policeman can screw up.

    It can be expensive to pursue legal action, but it's worth investigating your options. Please have a look at the list of attorney's on the MIOCDO website:

    http://miopencarry.org/page.php?Attorneys

    At a minimum, I know that Jim Simmons claims to give a free phone consultation.


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    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    office888 wrote:
    Just curious, what type of holster were you using?

    -Richard-
    an uncle mike's kydex paddle holster. even without a serpa style release, it took him a few tugs to get it loose. i'm not a fan of having to use a button to draw my gun and this holster is a good compromise.
    I'm sorry but my first instinct if that were to happen to me is to knock his friggin teeth out with my elbow and take him down, and I would have every right. Don't think it would be going over to well for me if I was sneaked up on and disarmed in public. Since they are behind you you have no idea who it is and they have no right to do this to anyone especially without announcing them self as a police officer.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    CoonDog wrote:
    http://miopencarry.org/page.php?Attorneys

    At a minimum, I know that Jim Simmons claims to give a free phone consultation.
    Dean really needs to be on that list. :shock:

    He's representing theszerdi in Detroit for a case of ammo, saying words to the extent of he wanted to be known as the gun guy's lawyer, and that he's a civil libertarian. I don't know what his rates would be for other cases, but he's a very very pro gun guy who has been very friendly to our cause. He too is happy to give people pointers if they call him up. He told my CPL class to call him with any legal questions.

    Jim Simmons however has been said to be opposed to OCing, and definitely wouldn't have represented thezerdi for a case of ammo.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Smoothsounds21 wrote:
    I'm sorry but my first instinct if that were to happen to me is to knock his friggin teeth out with my elbow and take him down, and I would have every right.
    While you are right, and in fact in a surprise disarming situation killing the officer might have been justified, it's exactly the opposite from the appropriate thing to do if you know you're dealing with a cop. If we ever gained a reputation for being willing to fight it out with the police, the media would destroy us, and open carry could easily be banned at the state level resulting from a public outcry.

    Unless you are truly in fear of being killed or seriously injured, there is NO reason to resist a cop. The law is already on our side. If a cop abuses someone seriously for open carrying, later court cases can easily result in 6 figures being paid out, the cop losing his or her job, and a shockwave of law enforcement officers being properly educated. All of this with us getting fairly positive attention if we act politely and professionally the whole time.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Michigander wrote:
    Smoothsounds21 wrote:
    I'm sorry but my first instinct if that were to happen to me is to knock his friggin teeth out with my elbow and take him down, and I would have every right.
    While you are right, and in fact in a surprise disarming situation killing the officer might have been justified, it's exactly the opposite from the appropriate thing to do if you know you're dealing with a cop. If we ever gained a reputation for being willing to fight it out with the police, the media would destroy us, and open carry could easily be banned at the state level resulting from a public outcry.

    Unless you are truly in fear of being killed or seriously injured, there is NO reason to resist a cop. The law is already on our side. If a cop abuses someone seriously for open carrying, later court cases can easily result in 6 figures being paid out, the cop losing his or her job, and a shockwave of law enforcement officers being properly educated. All of this with us getting fairly positive attention if we act politely and professionally the whole time.
    By all means if you were to know its a cop, put your hands where they can see them and don't resist. But disarming someone from behind is one of the stupidest thing anyone can do.

  21. #21
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    Smoothsounds21 wrote:
    I'm sorry but my first instinct if that were to happen to me is to knock his friggin teeth out with my elbow and take him down, and I would have every right.
    While you are right, and in fact in a surprise disarming situation killing the officer might have been justified, it's exactly the opposite from the appropriate thing to do if you know you're dealing with a cop. If we ever gained a reputation for being willing to fight it out with the police, the media would destroy us, and open carry could easily be banned at the state level resulting from a public outcry.

    Unless you are truly in fear of being killed or seriously injured, there is NO reason to resist a cop. The law is already on our side. If a cop abuses someone seriously for open carrying, later court cases can easily result in 6 figures being paid out, the cop losing his or her job, and a shockwave of law enforcement officers being properly educated. All of this with us getting fairly positive attention if we act politely and professionally the whole time.
    I have to agree with Michigander... We are peaceful ambassadors and we need to stay peaceful when dealing with law enforcement.

    I wasn't going to say any thing one way or the other on this one ... however now I will.

    You have to be on condition red at all times when you are OCing. My procedure is as follows and I do it whether I am carrying or not.

    1. Never have my back to the door in a eating place.

    2. constantly scan for people close to me that might be a threat.

    3. when I am looking at something in a store I try and stand so that I have my back to shelves and can watch the isle out of the corner of my eye.

    4. when walking on a street I check my 6 frequently also 3 and 9

    5. I never walk and talk on my cell phone in public.

    6. When in a checkout line a stand sideways with my strong side next to my cart.

    I am not telling you guys this to in any way brag or say that I have all the answers... but we have to be on our guard and good situational awareness can save us from many confrontations and or change the dynamics of the situation.

    NOTE I am not saying that any of this could have prevented what happened in meijers.. but it might have at least changed the dynamics. Or it might not have I was not there so I cannot say for sure.

    Keep you guard up your eyes roving and your back to the proverbial wall!

    Carry On
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Yup.springerdave.

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    There are details that I don't recall but there is a standing offer here on OCDO of a cash reward for documentation of a successfully snatched gun from a Legally Armed Citizen. Might this qualify. The reward can defray costs.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    yes, i reckon my situation would qualify, as would several others in michigan. i will be looking into whether there is a police report on the incident.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  25. #25
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    These police officers that think sneaking up and grabbing a gun is a good idea IE tactical move need to cut it out before there is a deadly encounter! All it will take is for a plaincloths officer to try that and not succeed and we will have a shooting on our hands... and it will most likely be justified too.... but it will create a backlash as was mentioned non the less...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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