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Meijer no longer OC friendly.

autosurgeon

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Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
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Michigander wrote:
Smoothsounds21 wrote:
I'm sorry but my first instinct if that were to happen to me is to knock his friggin teeth out with my elbow and take him down, and I would have every right.

While you are right, and in fact in a surprise disarming situation killing the officer might have been justified, it's exactly the opposite from the appropriate thing to do if you know you're dealing with a cop. If we ever gained a reputation for being willing to fight it out with the police, the media would destroy us, and open carry could easily be banned at the state level resulting from a public outcry.

Unless you are truly in fear of being killed or seriously injured, there is NO reason to resist a cop. The law is already on our side. If a cop abuses someone seriously for open carrying, later court cases can easily result in 6 figures being paid out, the cop losing his or her job, and a shockwave of law enforcement officers being properly educated. All of this with us getting fairly positive attention if we act politely and professionally the whole time.
I have to agree with Michigander... We are peaceful ambassadors and we need to stay peaceful when dealing with law enforcement.

I wasn't going to say any thing one way or the other on this one ... however now I will.

You have to be on condition red at all times when you are OCing. My procedure is as follows and I do it whether I am carrying or not.

1. Never have my back to the door in a eating place.

2. constantly scan for people close to me that might be a threat.

3. when I am looking at something in a store I try and stand so that I have my back to shelves and can watch the isle out of the corner of my eye.

4. when walking on a street I check my 6 frequently also 3 and 9

5. I never walk and talk on my cell phone in public.

6. When in a checkout line a stand sideways with my strong side next to my cart.

I am not telling you guys this to in any way brag or say that I have all the answers... but we have to be on our guard and good situational awareness can save us from many confrontations and or change the dynamics of the situation.

NOTE I am not saying that any of this could have prevented what happened in meijers.. but it might have at least changed the dynamics. Or it might not have I was not there so I cannot say for sure.

Keep you guard up your eyes roving and your back to the proverbial wall!

Carry On
 

autosurgeon

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Joined
Sep 29, 2008
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3,831
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Lawrence, Michigan, United States
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These police officers that think sneaking up and grabbing a gun is a good idea IE tactical move need to cut it out before there is a deadly encounter! All it will take is for a plaincloths officer to try that and not succeed and we will have a shooting on our hands... and it will most likely be justified too.... but it will create a backlash as was mentioned non the less...
 

Jblack44

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
291
Location
Westland, Michigan, USA
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Could be a "I told you so!" incident that the police will use against OC. Your gun can be snatched at any time. So lets get it banned:banghead:



will be watching this one for sure.....
 

dougwg

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
2,443
Location
MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
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Wrong

The whole gun grab argument is not that simple.

"Gun Grab" is just the sound bite.

It's a short version of saying this:

If you open carry, your gun will get grabbed by a BAD GUY and then either used on you (the BG will shoot you)or be used in another crime.
A gun grab by and idiot LEO is NOT the same thing.

Taking words out of context changes the meaning to suit certain agendas.
 

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
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Jblack44 wrote:
Could be a "I told you so!" incident that the police will use against OC. Your gun can be snatched at any time. So lets get it banned:banghead:



will be watching this one for sure.....
can't get into details, but it's not as simple as that... the only reason they got it is because they were LEO...
 

LaVere

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
264
Location
The remains of Flint, Michigan, USA
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While I don't open carry often. But when I do I generally follow these guide lines.

1. Never have my back to the door in a eating place.
1a ( added ) I sit with my gun away from the alsle


2. constantly scan for people close to me that might be a threat.

3. when I am looking at something in a store I try and stand so that I have my back to shelves and can watch the isle out of the corner of my eye.

4. when walking on a street I check my 6 frequently also 3 and 9

5. I never walk and talk on my cell phone in public. ( I don't follow this one. Maybe I should for situational awareness (SA) . But I rarely use my cell phone and I don't get absorbed in the conversation.)

6. When in a checkout line a stand sideways with my strong side next to my cart.



It IS my responsibility to retain my weapon. No disrespect to the original poster.

While I know nothing and I was not there for that event. I don't think my (SA) would have been as high as it should have been. I may have walked passed the Officer and thought positive thoughts. If ithad been a Perp looking person ( What ever that is). MY SA would have gone up a step.

While standing there with my back to the officer or not having seen him or aware of his presents. IF I had felt a grab or hand on my gun. My reflex would have been to grab my weapon and that may have placed my hand over his. The next reflex would have been to turn to see and face the grabber. And maybe with my free hand swing my knife around that side before even thinking.

If I would have recognized first that it was a police officer all actions would have stopped. My hand would still be over his hanging on for dear life. In one micro second and at high stress I am suppose to determine it is a police officer, security guard on duty or off duty, or just a wacko in a uniform.

If he would have pulled his gun my hands would have gone up. If he didn't pull his gun. My hand is still on my weapon. And he better start explaining.

That officer should have never placed the gun holder or other shoppers in that amount of danger.

This is twice I have read about this action happening and it has to stop NOW before either party gets killed. A letter should be written to the Attorney General so asking for decease and desists orders.



None of my selected owb holster have a detaining strap. May I should get one with a strap.




[/ rant off]
 

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
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lavere, i appreciate you not intending disrespect, and i'm not taking what you're saying as such. i will say that when you know all the details, which i won't disclose yet, you will know how and why he was "allowed" to grab my firearm.

*edit for clarity
 

mastiff69

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
573
Location
Kalamazoo, Michigan, United States
imported post

So what happens when a officer grabs for your gun, and You don't know he/she is an officer, and you pull your back up out to stop the gun grab ?

I wonder if these Stupid (stupid officers) realize they are putting themselves in harms way for a ( I'll show you stunt).

A intelligent officer won't do a gun grab, it is not tactically sound, as it puts them in the Zone.....
 

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
imported post

mastiff69 wrote:
So what happens when a officer grabs for your gun, and You don't know he/she is an officer, and you pull your back up out to stop the gun grab ?

I wonder if these Stupid (stupid officers) realize they are putting themselves in harms way for a ( I'll show you stunt).

A intelligent officer won't do a gun grab, it is not tactically sound, as it puts them in the Zone.....
exactly. very poor tactics.
 

LaVere

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
264
Location
The remains of Flint, Michigan, USA
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smellslikemichigan wrote:
lavere, i appreciate you not intending disrespect, and i'm not taking what you're saying as such. i will say that if you knew all the detail, which i won't disclose yet, you will how and why he was "allowed" to grab my firearm.

Thank you for your reply... If and when the time is right I'm sure you will let us know if you choose. While I don't alway articulate myself well I mean well IMO.

Keep up the struggle and we too shall over come.
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
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mastiff69 wrote:
So what happens when a officer grabs for your gun, and You don't know he/she is an officer, and you pull your back up out to stop the gun grab ?

I wonder if these Stupid (stupid officers) realize they are putting themselves in harms way for a ( I'll show you stunt).

A intelligent officer won't do a gun grab, it is not tactically sound, as it puts them in the Zone.....
I agree, I was thinking the same thing. I consider a gun grab a life and death struggle that I have practiced for and do not intend to lose.
 

Smoothsounds21

Regular Member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
133
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
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I wonder how the police officer would react if someone came up to him while he was lawfully carrying, and tried to snatch his gun. I don't think he would be to pleased. Just a thought.
 
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