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Thread: MSU allows CPL holders on campus.

  1. #1
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    MSU the first to cave. Let's hope U of M and Wayne state are next. This is great news for gun rights. I heard this on NPR and I yelled yeah!



    Michigan State approves exception to weapons ban
    Associated Press

    9:33 AM CDT, June 20, 2009
    Michigan State University has approved an exception to its campus weapons ban allowing people with permits to carry concealed weapons to walk or drive through campus with a gun.

    The Detroit Free Press reports the East Lansing university's governing board voted 7-1 Friday to make the exception and avoid a conflict with state law. Guns still are banned inside campus buildings and sports stadiums.

    The issue was raised by campus police who had to issue citations to people with guns during traffic stops regardless whether they had a permit.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,0,69195.story

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    HOLY CRAP!

    Hope My U is next!

  3. #3
    Regular Member tygereye's Avatar
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    This is awesome!! Another reason to jump on getting my CPL...

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm just bitter and hard to please, but I'm not going to be impressed until they allow OC by CPL holders anywhere on their property.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member tygereye's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    Maybe I'm just bitter and hard to please, but I'm not going to be impressed until they allow OC by CPL holders anywhere on their property.
    True, but, it is a step in the right direction. Hopefully it won't be long...

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    Maybe I'm just bitter and hard to please, but I'm not going to be impressed until they allow OC by CPL holders anywhere on their property.
    Well I plan to OC there with a CPL. They don't say you can't OC. Perhaps I'll have to research the actual ordinance. BTW the article states that no carrying in buildings,but if they are following state law that shouldmean dorms and classrooms only.

    Without a CPL college campuses are not on the banned places. All depends on the wording of the ordinance. We have to wait and see.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    great news for gun rights on a day which has been otherwise crappy for gun rights
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Venator wrote:
    All depends on the wording of the ordinance. We have to wait and see.
    I agree; I'm anxious to see the wording on the ordinance. Sparty On!

  9. #9
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Here is the Detroit Freepress article that the Chicago article came from. More details here..

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2009906200425
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  10. #10
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Here is the Detroit Freepress article that the Chicago article came from. More details here..

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2009906200425
    People who have permits to carry concealed weapons may now walk or drive through Michigan's largest university campus without fear of running afoul of a campus-wide weapons ban. May allow non CPL holders to OC????

    Michigan State University trustees voted 7-1 on Friday to make that exception to avoid a conflict with state law.

    That's not to say MSU students or anyone else can take a sidearm into the biology lab or a fall football game. State law bans weapons in buildings and those with weapons must stay outside, President Lou Anna K. Simon said.

    Not true, so it sounds like they are following state law, which allows then in buildings, just not dorms, classrooms.

    The issue was raised by campus police who had to issue citations to people with guns during traffic stops, even if those drivers had permits to carry a concealed weapon.

    The University of Michigan continues to ban guns on campus.

    MSU says it must allow guns on campus
    The simple version is that it was an issue of weapons on a college campus.

    But Michigan State University authorities said Friday that they were forced to change a campus-wide ban to clear up a legal gray area and reassert the university's constitutional authority.

    Trustees withdrew a ban on guns for people driving or walking through who have a state permit to carry a concealed weapon.

    Authorities said the change did not represent a shift in principals -- guns still are banned altogether from inside campus buildings (Not true) and sports stadiums -- it was instituted to avoid a showdown over whether state law trumped a university's autonomy.

    "This is probably not the issue we want to fall on our sword on," said Trustee Colleen McNamara. She added that her lone dissension in the 7-1 vote was more symbolic than outright opposition.

    Even for permit holders, state law bans weapons from such places as an entertainment facility that seats 2,500 or more, a college dormitory or classroom and any university sports arena or stadium. Here they get it right.

    Ever controversial, the debate over weapons on campus has been especially heated since the deadly shooting rampages at Virginia Tech in 2007 and Northern Illinois University in 2008. Some argue that arming law-abiding students and faculty can mitigate threats; others counter that more weapons will lead to more violence.

    All of Michigan's university campuses have weapons bans, according to the Presidents Council, State Universities of Michigan. A random sampling Friday found the bans vary slightly.

    At the University of Michigan's three campuses, it doesn't matter if someone has a state permit to carry a weapon, anyone found with one could get up to 60 days in jail, said Diane Brown, spokeswoman for U-M police. (We'll see, a day in court may change their minds.) Eastern Michigan University has a total ban on guns, too.

    While Wayne State University bans weapons, violators face an administrative disciplinary hearing rather than criminal prosecution under state law. Police will order those with guns to leave campus. (Good to know)

    At Northern Michigan University and at Michigan Tech, where many students are hunters, campus police allow permit-holders to bring guns to school -- but only if they register and store them in designated areas.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    At the University of Michigan's three campuses, it doesn't matter if someone has a state permit to carry a weapon, anyone found with one could get up to 60 days in jail, said Diane Brown, spokeswoman for U-M police.

    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    We are still tracking Michigan as not banning open carry on campas and in buildings unless somebody has other info, see college carry map.

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Utah allows for permitted open or concealed carry in all 10 of our college campuses. :P

    ...er, uh, I mean... Great job guys! :celebrate This is a great start!
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  14. #14
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    We are still tracking Michigan as not banning open carry on campas and in buildings unless somebody has other info, see college carry map.
    MSU is the only one so far. There is some state constitutional issue that U of M, MSU and Wayne state has certain rights no bestowed on other public colleges. So having MSU change there policy may catalyze a change in the others. But until then, the rest ban firearms.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  15. #15
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    BUT being that MSU is the first land grant institution in the country does pull some weight!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    One more reason my MSU is better than U of M!! :celebrate

    Go Spartans

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    Michigander wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    At the University of Michigan's three campuses, it doesn't matter if someone has a state permit to carry a weapon, anyone found with one could get up to 60 days in jail, said Diane Brown, spokeswoman for U-M police.
    "Next, Ms. Brown showed us the rock behind her desk that she uses to ward tigers off the UofM campus."

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    At the University of Michigan's three campuses, it doesn't matter if someone has a state permit to carry a weapon, anyone found with one could get up to 60 days in jail, said Diane Brown, spokeswoman for U-M police.
    Wait... that isn't true, is it? They have no legal authority as a University. All they can do is ask you to leave. Right?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  19. #19
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    The university's that have Regents have diff powers than the others.... I think
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  20. #20
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    EM87 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    At the University of Michigan's three campuses, it doesn't matter if someone has a state permit to carry a weapon, anyone found with one could get up to 60 days in jail, said Diane Brown, spokeswoman for U-M police.
    Wait... that isn't true, is it? They have no legal authority as a University. All they can do is ask you to leave. Right?
    That is not my quote, that is from the article.

    But it is true U of M has an ordinance and can enforce it. There is some question as to whether they have that right. since they have special powers provided by the state constitution thay can enact laws and a college is not defined as a municipality under the preemption statut. It has yet to be challengedin court.

    MSU has decide not to test the law and has sided with state law.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    EM87 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    At the University of Michigan's three campuses, it doesn't matter if someone has a state permit to carry a weapon, anyone found with one could get up to 60 days in jail, said Diane Brown, spokeswoman for U-M police.
    Wait... that isn't true, is it? They have no legal authority as a University. All they can do is ask you to leave. Right?
    Barring any court cases to the contrary, the U of M Police could arrest and jail you for violating their ordinance. If that did happen, you can be sure that there are a few groups out there who would be interested in fighting the ordinance in court.

    I think that the outcome of any case could go either way; I don't think U of M wants to risk it. They would probably let you plea deal or may not even enforce it. Then again, they may. If you do decide to test the ordinance, please be aware you may be involved in a long legal battle.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  22. #22
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    This would be a good time to OC a Hi Point Not such a great loss if they deface it... also the company would most likely fix it up like new for free esp if you told them how it came to be damaged!

    I cannot afford the legal costs so I won't be the test case unfortunately.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  23. #23
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    I had a good friend that had a Highpoint. He has probably 15-20 different handguns; he bought the Highpoint on a whim.

    He loves it. He thinks it is the best pistol in his arsenal and uses it as his everyday carry. He has never had any feeding problems. (I think he likes it so much because he likes to consider how much he paid for it). But, I can't argue with him. So, although the "loss" of a highpoint is affordable, the loss of any handgun is a terrible thing.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  24. #24
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I own the C9 9mm handgun and the 995 carbine they are both very reliable guns! and accurate as well! I just know if I had to be without a gun for a while to make a point I would rather it was the C9
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    With the talk about the schools with Regents or Trustees like U of M, MSU and Wayne State University having special rights. What about the school i go to, Western Michigan University. I would love for the congressman to just change that rule. A person CC'ing or OC'ing elsewhere isnt gonna do anything stupid just because they walk into class...

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