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Roanoke Times does it again

peter nap

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Whoever wrote it is an idiot....BUT, if I ever meet David Yount, I'm gonna clean his clock.

One moron like him gives more publicity than a thousand responsible people.:X
 

nova

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http://www.roanoke.com/columnists/casey/wb/209155

Get ready for guns in bars

By Dan Casey

It's far too early to take a reasonable guess at who will prevail in November's likely gubernatorial slugfest between state Sen. Creigh Deeds and former Attorney General Bob McDonnell.
But one probable victor is the frightening guns-in-bars legislation that has passed the Virginia House and Senate for the past two years and was sensibly vetoed each time by Gov. Tim Kaine.
Both Deeds, a Bath County Democrat who voted for the bill, and McDonnell, a Henrico County Republican, are on the record in favor of allowing concealed weapons in bars, by permit holders, provided those handgun hiders do not drink alcohol.
To McDonnell, it's a constitutional issue. If elected, he would sign it into law.
"Concealed carry permit holders have to pass rigorous background checks prior to gaining a permit. These are law-abiding individuals exercising their Second Amendment right to bear arms," says Tucker Martin, a McDonnell campaign spokesman.
Deeds stands by his vote earlier this year. If elected, he would sign the bill Kaine vetoed, his campaign said.
"Creigh Deeds supports the Second Amendment and Virginia's current laws, but believes that guns and alcohol don't mix," Deeds spokesman Jared Leopold says. "In the state Senate, Creigh Deeds voted to prevent individuals carrying concealed weapons from drinking alcohol."
That sounds like a fancy way around the fact that the senator voted to remove the current prohibition on concealed weapons in bars.
I don't quite understand why anyone would want to carry a concealed weapon into a bar. Open carry/no drinking already is allowed, though restaurateurs often ask those people to leave. (Maybe that's why gun owners want to hide them.)
Larry Pratt, president of the Northern Virginia-based Gun Owners of America, says it's because of the "element of surprise."
"When you're carrying concealed, you retain the element of surprise much more than if you're carrying openly," Pratt told me. And that would give you an edge over any attacker, he added.
It's precisely that prospect that frightens the dickens out of two well-known and experienced Roanoke-area barkeeps.
One is Mike Flanary, co-owner of The Cornerstone Bar & Grill on the city market and Flanary's Irish Pub on Jefferson Street downtown. He considers himself a liberal.
The other is Chip Moore, owner of the Brambleton Deli and Annie Moore's Irish Pub, both in Southwest Roanoke County. He calls himself a conservative.
"Can you tell me one good thing that could happen from someone who carried a concealed weapon into a bar? I can't think of one good thing," Flanary told me. "The fact that they would allow it is mind-boggling."
Moore asked, "What are they trying to accomplish by having people with concealed weapons in bars? ... I'm not for stricter guns laws -- but I'm not crazy, either."
Each raised interesting points on the so-far-failed legislation's fine print:
n Absent airport-style metal detectors at bars, the proviso that pistol-hiding diners not drink is laughably unenforceable.
n Bad judgment and alcohol already are regular companions without guns in the mix. "That upstanding person who has the concealed carry permit is not the same person after 10 beers," Moore observed.
n Patrons who are too frightened to enter an establishment without a concealed gun might be better off staying out of it in the first place.
They also both questioned whether an entrance sign barring concealed weapons would deter people from bringing them in.
One reason both candidates would favor guns in bars lies in the gun lobby that has fought for this law, its deep constituency in Virginia and the unquestionable influence it wields over many Virginia politicians.
Another is this: As of May there were roughly 189,000 active concealed-carry permit holders in Virginia.
If November's contest is anything like their historically close 2005 race for attorney general, neither Deeds nor McDonnell can risk alienating any voters.
That's why it's clear concealed-guns-in-bars in Virginia looks like a pretty good bet for 2010, just like it was this year in neighboring Tennessee, where it recently passed.
So next year, with burning cigarettes banned from most restaurants, perhaps the most likely kind of bar smoke we'll see is smoldering wisps that emerge from hot pistol barrels after some permit-holding, gun-hiding patrons get into a face-off.
That is insanity, Virginia.
 

joeamt

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Here is a perfect reason why I carry at the resteraunt and everywhere else I go:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-06-20-denny-shooting_N.htm?csp=34

ALBUQUERQUE, New Mexico (AP) — Police in Albuquerque say an employee has been killed after several armed suspects attempted a takeover-style robbery at a packed restaurant.
Police spokeswoman Officer Nadine Hamby says "multiple" armed suspects rushed the Denny's Restaurant in northwest Albuquerque at about 9:30 a.m. Saturday. As many as 100 people were inside.

A female restaurant employee was shot and killed.

Two people have been detained, but Hamby says it is unclear if they are robbery suspects. A police tactical team has surrounded a northwest Albuquerque home where other possible suspects are believed to have fled.

Hamby says detectives have more than 60 witnesses to interview, and not all saw the same thing. Witnesses reported seeing from two to six suspects.
 

Dispatcher

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Here we go again.

They cover all of their usual basics here, and I mean all of them.

Lets see what they covered:

All gun owners are nut-cases who pull out their gun and go on a shooting rampage once they going into any establishment with an ABC license.

All concealed carry holders enjoy at least 10 beers while conceal carrying in any such business. At least 10, every time..... and then go on a shooting rampage.

The full intent of this bill is we conceal carry holders can carry into bars. Not a Ruby Tuesday or Red Lobster, it's only aim is to allow carry into bars (it doesn't matter that bars are illegal!).

What kind of person needs to carry a gun anyways? I mean, that's... that's .... just ridiculous!

Without metal detectors you cannot keep conceal carry holders from drinking, it would be unenforceable! It doesn't matter that the current prohibition on carrying is unenforceable too!

Obviously if you are too scared to enter a business without your gun you are a paranoid mental case who just shouldn't come in anyways.

...

Yep.... I think they covered all of their favorite basics.....

This article is the most unintelligent, biased, non-researched, flatly-false piece of trash I have read this year. And that, my friends, is and understatement.
 

wylde007

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Open carry/no drinking already is allowed, though restaurateurs often ask those people to leave.
Open carry/DRINKING is allowed. It is only illegal to be intoxicated.

A fine line, yes I know, and most carriers of sidearms will agree that it is in our best interests to remain sober so as not to draw negative attention to our rights, but still not illegal to have a drink while OC.

Unless there's a cite I missed in the code... I do that sometimes.
 

peter nap

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TexasNative wrote:
Nope, I think you got it right.

~ Boyd
That's right...but I happen to agree that alcohol and guns don't mix. I think most if not all of us feel that way. Why do something in a restaurant, you wouldn't do at home. Just drink soft drinks with your meal.

Second reason is it only takes one idiot like the duck shooter, to cast a big shadow over the rest of us.
 

TexasNative

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peter nap wrote:
Second reason is it only takes one idiot like the duck shooter, to cast a big shadow over the rest of us.
But we need to separate acting stupid from needing a law to tell you not to act stupid. What law, had it been in effect when this incident happened, would have prevented it?

Laws can't prevent stupid.

~ Boyd
 

Phssthpok

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Absent airport-style metal detectors at bars, the proviso that pistol-hiding diners not drink is laughably unenforceable.



Is anyone else catching the logical disconnect here?



"A law allowing CC in bars as long as they don't drink is silly because they'll just drink anyway! That's why we need a law to keep them out of bars in the first place!"



Uh...WHA?:banghead:
 

SouthernBoy

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Here's the problem with these people. They move into our state and don't leave their mental baggage at the gate before entering. So they take up residence and still hold their "foreign" beliefs which run counter to Virginians. Some get into positions of power (governors, representatives, senators, newspaper editors) where they can not only influence but change that which has been a hallmark of Virginia liberty for generations. Now I don't mind someone who comes here from somewhere else who adopts our customs and ways as their own. What I don't like is someone who migrates here and then goes about trying to change things that are not broken.. that work and work well. They are trying to have what they left in our state. If it's gun control or removal of carry rights or whatever, that is NOT what we want here in Virginia.

Change is inevitable and is going to occur regardless of what we may think about it. But the kind of change I am speaking of here is that which alters our way of life here in Virginia to the point where it no longer resembles Virginia. If I was a native of Massachusetts, I would think the same way about my state, and rightly so.

Look what has happened to Florida. There's a saying there amongst the native people of the state. "If you want to go south, go north".
 

TexasNative

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hsmith wrote:
Can someone give me a list of bars in Virginia?
Is this not a distinction without a difference? Yeah, all of us here know that, technically, there's no such thing as a "bar" in Virginia. But if you go up to the majority of the folks who live in Virginia and ask them if Virginia has any bars, they'll probably look at you as if you're insane.

If you get away from the legal technicalities of Virginia law, we clearly have bars in Virginia. They're just required to also serve food (a certain percentage of their income must come from food sales). Look at it rationally, and there are plenty of bars in Virginia. Just because the ABC calls them restaurants doesn't mean they're not bars by a "common man" definition.

And those are the places that they're talking about in editorials like this. Denying their existence won't get us very far. These aren't places where most of us are talking about carrying, openly or concealed. So in the end, we in the gun rights community are talking about carrying in one type of business, where the antis are talking about guns in a completely different type of business, even though they share the same type of liquor license.

I don't know the answer, but them talking about one type of establishment while we talk about a different type of establishment isn't going to get us anywhere. I think we need to change our argument, but I haven't figgered out how to do that.

~ Boyd
 
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