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Thread: Open Carry for a Non-Resident Alien

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    I am a Canadian citizen who will be visiting your wonderful State this August.

    I am bringing my Glock 17 (have filled out the required paper work and permits to legally bring gun into the States)

    my question is:

    can a non-resident Alien OPEN CARRY in AZ? if yes, how so? what permits / forms do I need etc?

    also, can anyone tell me what can be legally hunted in Aug with a pistol (9mm)

    Thank you

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    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    Arizona Law regarding weapons is listed at the following link

    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/Arizona...s.asp?Title=13

    skip down to chapter 31

    Copiedfrom Definitions:

    7. "Prohibited possessor" means any person:

    (a) Who has been found to constitute a danger to himself or to others pursuant to court order under section 36-540, and whose court ordered treatment has not been terminated by court order.

    (b) Who has been convicted within or without this state of a felony or who has been adjudicated delinquent for a felony and whose civil right to possess or carry a gun or firearm has not been restored.

    (c) Who is at the time of possession serving a term of imprisonment in any correctional or detention facility.

    (d) Who is at the time of possession serving a term of probation pursuant to a conviction for a domestic violence offense as defined in section 13-3601 or a felony offense, parole, community supervision, work furlough, home arrest or release on any other basis or who is serving a term of probation or parole pursuant to the interstate compact under title 31, chapter 3, article 4.

    (e) Who is an undocumented alien or a nonimmigrant alien traveling with or without documentation in this state for business or pleasure or who is studying in this state and who maintains a foreign residence abroad. This subdivision does not apply to:

    (i) Nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid hunting license or permit that is lawfully issued by a state in the United States.

    (ii) Nonimmigrant aliens who enter the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show that is sponsored by a national, state or local firearms trade organization devoted to the competitive use or other sporting use of firearms.

    (iii) Certain diplomats.

    (iv) Officials of foreign governments or distinguished foreign visitors who are designated by the United States department of state.

    (v) Persons who have received a waiver from the United States attorney general.

    You can hunt predators such as Coyotes year round. Big game available then would be Lion.

    Aditional hunt info available here: http://www.gf.state.az.us/

    Enjoy your stay.
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    TOF wrote:
    (e) Who is an undocumented alien or a nonimmigrant alien traveling with or without documentation in this state for business or pleasure or who is studying in this state and who maintains a foreign residence abroad. This subdivision does not apply to:

    (i) Nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid hunting license or permit that is lawfully issued by a state in the United States.

    (ii) Nonimmigrant aliens who enter the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show that is sponsored by a national, state or local firearms trade organization devoted to the competitive use or other sporting use of firearms.
    I think this part in particular outlines what you'll need.

    Section (e), subsection (i) states that you'll need a permit. I'd imagine that you'll need to get this from DPS, or possibly through a County Sheriff's office.

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    davesnothere wrote:
    TOF wrote:
    (e) Who is an undocumented alien or a nonimmigrant alien traveling with or without documentation in this state for business or pleasure or who is studying in this state and who maintains a foreign residence abroad. This subdivision does not apply to:

    (i) Nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid hunting license or permit that is lawfully issued by a state in the United States.

    (ii) Nonimmigrant aliens who enter the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show that is sponsored by a national, state or local firearms trade organization devoted to the competitive use or other sporting use of firearms.
    I think this part in particular outlines what you'll need.

    Section (e), subsection (i) states that you'll need a permit. I'd imagine that you'll need to get this from DPS, or possibly through a County Sheriff's office.
    Wouldn't it be simpler just to pick up a hunting license at any Wal-Mart, sporting goods store, or gun store?
    http://arizonagunowners.com - The best AZ gun board around!

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    JesseL wrote:
    davesnothere wrote:
    TOF wrote:
    (e) Who is an undocumented alien or a nonimmigrant alien traveling with or without documentation in this state for business or pleasure or who is studying in this state and who maintains a foreign residence abroad. This subdivision does not apply to:

    (i) Nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid hunting license or permit that is lawfully issued by a state in the United States.

    (ii) Nonimmigrant aliens who enter the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show that is sponsored by a national, state or local firearms trade organization devoted to the competitive use or other sporting use of firearms.
    I think this part in particular outlines what you'll need.

    Section (e), subsection (i) states that you'll need a permit. I'd imagine that you'll need to get this from DPS, or possibly through a County Sheriff's office.
    Wouldn't it be simpler just to pick up a hunting license at any Wal-Mart, sporting goods store, or gun store?
    I'm not a hunter (yet), and I haven't read everything that DPS and AZGFD have to say on the matter, but I'd bet that a hunting permit doesn't get you off the hook as a non-resident alien OC'ing in an urban area.

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    davesnothere wrote:
    I'm not a hunter (yet), and I haven't read everything that DPS and AZGFD have to say on the matter, but I'd bet that a hunting permit doesn't get you off the hook as a non-resident alien OC'ing in an urban area.
    The law says it does.

    That's not to say that a police officer who's already asked for ID will see it that way right off...
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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Hunting anything with a 9mm handgun is a stupid idea to begin with. Coyotes? You'll never get near 'em... unless you plan to shoot from your car window.... which is a felony. Know the immediate difference between a coyote and a gray wolf? The wolf is an endangered species. Lion? Yeh right... This desert will 'eat you'. Stay out of it. Last thing we need here isCanadian wanderin' around shootin' at everything that moves for the helluvit. Point of fact... you are a foreigner... analien. You cannot legally go among us armed.We have enough of that from the south already.

    A hunting license does not extend to wandering OC altho nobody will stop you. You are NOT hunting. You are merely armed. As a non-resident alien... you are illegally armed.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    A hunting license does not extend to wandering OC altho nobody will stop you. You are NOT hunting. You are merely armed. As a non-resident alien... you are illegally armed.
    As I suggested before, you should get the right permits through DPS if you're considering carry.

    I'm not all that against foreign citizens carrying, as long as they comply with the appropriate laws to do so.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Foreigners carrying? I'm against it... damned right I'm against it. We are a sovereign nation. If Canadians are OK... then Mexicans, Guatamalans, El Salvadorans, Haitians 'n who knows what else is OK. No... it ain't OK. It's our RIGHT... not theirs. Hunting and target competitions are one thing... but walkin' around heeled is something else again. We still have states where our own citizens can't do that. No... this goes beyond 'being nice'... it's being stupid.

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    wait a minute... canadians can own firearms?!?!?!:P

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    r6-rider wrote:
    wait a minute... canadians can own firearms?!?!?!:P
    Yeah, I saw that.....thought it was a typo......:?

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Foreigners carrying? I'm against it... damned right I'm against it. We are a sovereign nation. If Canadians are OK... then Mexicans, Guatamalans, El Salvadorans, Haitians 'n who knows what else is OK. No... it ain't OK. It's our RIGHT... not theirs. Hunting and target competitions are one thing... but walkin' around heeled is something else again. We still have states where our own citizens can't do that. No... this goes beyond 'being nice'... it's being stupid.
    Wouldn't you want to be able to carry in those other countries? I had a permit while I was in Panama. I think we should work to get reciprocity with other countries to be able to carry there. Canada will issue permits for Americans to possess (not carry) firearms in Canada.

    DPS will *not* issue a concealed carry permit for non-immigrant aliens. They used to, before 9/11, but afterword they refused to do so. I am 99% sure that it was because of pressure from the Department of Homeland Security. About the same time, Minnesota law was changed to require citizenship or a green card to obtain a permit.

    I believe that a hunting license is all you would need to open carry, and that is what I advise my friends.

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    spartans wrote:
    I am a Canadian citizen who will be visiting your wonderful State this August.

    I am bringing my Glock 17 (have filled out the required paper work and permits to legally bring gun into the States)

    my question is:

    can a non-resident Alien OPEN CARRY in AZ? if yes, how so? what permits / forms do I need etc?

    also, can anyone tell me what can be legally hunted in Aug with a pistol (9mm)

    Thank you
    Welcome to Arizona! I have met many Canadians who spend the winter here, and they are nice people. I hope you enjoy your trip. If you will be coming to Yuma, let me know and I will PM you with a phone number so I can answer any questions while you are there.


    I believe a hunting license is all that you will need to be able to open carry in Arizona. If you can legally bring the firearm to Arizona, you can probably open carry here. Remember, America operates on the principle that "if it is not forbidden, it is allowed", while it seems that much of the world operates on the principle "if it is not allowed, it is forbidden".

    Unfortunately, we seem to be moving in that direction.

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    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    Many years ago I drove the Alcan Highway to get to Alaska. The Canadians were considerate enough to allow me to place my loaded revolver in a plastic bag which they subsequently sealed. Although it was sealed it was quite functional and ready if needed. They also allowed my long guns to travel unencumbered without seals. Were I to make a similar trip today I would certainly research methods by which I could carry protection, sealed or not. If the rumor mill is correct I would not be able to but that would not stop me from checking.

    If spartans wishes to do the same on his visit to the US I think we should help in his info search. If he came on the forum and said he was sneaking across the US-Canadian line with a bunch of guns and needed false papers so he could keep them I would think otherwise.

    Conditions in the USA are certainly no less dangerous for our Northern Neighbors than for us, perhaps more dangerous if a BG see’s their Canadian license plate.

    I am just as much against the “Illegal Alien” situation on our southern border as any of you. That doesn’t mean I can’t be a good neighbor to those visiting while fully complying with our laws.


    PS: A ruger single six .22 Mag makes a great Coyote gun if you know how to get the job done.
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    I do not have my Arizona Hunting regulations with me, but I believe you can find them on line.

    I believe you can use a centerfire handgun to hunt all small game in Arizona. Either cottontail or Jack rabbits are legal to hunt all year round.

    The law does not say that you *must* be hunting to have the firearm. It merely says you need a hunting license to posess the firearm. In Arizona, if you can legally possess the firearm, you can legally open carry it (except on school grounds or in a few municipal parks).

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Foreigners carrying? I'm against it... damned right I'm against it. We are a sovereign nation. If Canadians are OK... then Mexicans, Guatamalans, El Salvadorans, Haitians 'n who knows what else is OK. No... it ain't OK. It's our RIGHT... not theirs. Hunting and target competitions are one thing... but walkin' around heeled is something else again. We still have states where our own citizens can't do that. No... this goes beyond 'being nice'... it's being stupid.
    We are a sovereign nation, yes. No question about that. And still, I don't mind non-resident aliens carrying, so long as they are in the country legally, and have the appropriate permits.

    Long term I hope that every State will adopt Vermont rules and that the Federal Government will move closer to the original meaning of the 2A, so with that said, no, non-resident aliens shouldn't have the same 2A rights that the rest of us do, nor do I think that they should. Permits should be a requirement, both for open and concealed carry.

    It is unreasonable to think we should throw away the basic right to self-defense with respect to non-resident aliens who are here legally.

    Sonora Rebel, I have read some of your other posts, and I know some of the things that you've had to deal with personally from your accounts, particularly with respect to illegal aliens, so I can see where you might be coming from, but I believe you are overlooking the bigger picture.

    A non-resident alien from any country, who is here legally, and is willing to obtain the appropriate permits, should be allowed to carry. Why not? They may be here trying to become American citizens. Should we prevent them from enjoying this basic freedom until they have sworn an oath? I don't see why that should be a preventative step. If they break the law, then they are going to do it whether we allow them to carry open or not.

    Illegal aliens who wish to be "heeled" won't respect the need for a permit to carry openly for two reasons: a) they are already here illegally so breaking one more law won't really matter, and b) as an illegal they don't have the proper documentation to get a non-resident alien permit anyway.

    The law-abiding shouldn't have unnecessary restrictions placed on them in order to defend themselves and their property. I believe that is true whether they are American, Zimbabwean, Russian, or Martian.

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    ccwinstructor wrote:
    I do not have my Arizona Hunting regulations with me, but I believe you can find them on line.

    I believe you can use a centerfire handgun to hunt all small game in Arizona. Either cottontail or Jack rabbits are legal to hunt all year round.

    The law does not say that you *must* be hunting to have the firearm. It merely says you need a hunting license to posess the firearm. In Arizona, if you can legally possess the firearm, you can legally open carry it (except on school grounds or in a few municipal parks).
    The regs are readily available from the Arizona Game And Fish Dept. : http://www.gf.state.az.us/


    Any centerfire handgun is legal for small and large game except for Buffalo which requires .41 Magnum or greater.
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    Thank you for posting the link.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Foreigners carrying?* I'm against it... damned right I'm against it.* We are a sovereign nation.* If Canadians are OK... then Mexicans, Guatamalans, El Salvadorans, Haitians 'n who knows what else is OK.* No... it ain't OK. It's our RIGHT... not theirs.* Hunting and target competitions are one thing... but walkin' around heeled is something else again. *We still have states where our own citizens can't do that. No... this goes beyond 'being nice'... it's being stupid.
    The human right to self-defense precedes our national sovereignty.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    A hunting license does not extend to wandering OC altho nobody will stop you. You are NOT hunting.* You are merely armed. As a non-resident alien... you are illegally armed.
    That's not what the law says. The law doesn't say "is hunting", it says "has a hunting license".

    Check your prejudice at the door. Any reasonable interpretation of law is uncolored by such.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Sorry... I'm not ready to open the gate, haul down the flag and let anybody from elsewhere come waltzin' in doin' whatever the hell they feel like. At the border crossing into Nogales, Mexico... there's a big sign: "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED". Years ago... (1969) I startled a Canadian Border dude when he asked if I had any firearms. "Yeah... right here. A Winchester .30-30." I had to unload it and put it in the trunk.Today... I don't think I could cross into BC (or anywhere in Canada) with a firearm. If he can't carry in Canada... let him work to fix that in his own country.

    Point is... this guy wants to carry for the novelty of it. Not only that... he feels compelled to 'kill' something... If he can't find a coyote... it'll be an eagle, hawk, falcon, vulture... or whatever else he can find to shoot at. I know the type. 'Can't just enjoy the wild things w/o wantin' to kill somethin'. This isn't about self defense... it's a novelty. Well... he'll find out soon enough what this desert is about in August.

    Maybe have a run-in with a momma Javelina or one of 5 kinds of rattler. That is... if the cholla 'n 'pear don't tear his legs up first. We have a couple people disappear in this desert every year. 'Never fails.

    Then... there's the Border Patrol checkpoints. I don't think a huntin' license will float if he has a hang-up with them while open carrying. He's not here on an immigrant visa... he's a FOREIGN TOURIST. The AZConstitution extends to citizens and 'resident' aliens... not TOURISTS. If you are not engaged in 'hunting'... then you are carrying illegally. There's no way anybody could justify carrying into a McDonalds in Phoenix... or Wickenburg... or Tucson and claim they were 'hunting'. If he gets into a situation and actually has to shoot somebody... He's screwed! Then... there's the Indian nations to consider.

    As for you marshaul... ****! You can't even carry loaded in SF... and doubtful you OC at all in the city. A 'sanctuary' city at that. NOTHING preceeds our national sovereignty. Not that you've ever done anything (or would) to defend it.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Sorry... I'm not ready to open the gate, haul down the flag and let anybody from elsewhere come waltzin' in doin' whatever the hell they feel like. At the border crossing into Nogales, Mexico... there's a big sign: "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED". Years ago... (1969) I startled a Canadian Border dude when he asked if I had any firearms. "Yeah... right here. A Winchester .30-30." I had to unload it and put it in the trunk.Today... I don't think I could cross into BC (or anywhere in Canada) with a firearm. If he can't carry in Canada... let him work to fix that in his own country.

    Point is... this guy wants to carry for the novelty of it. Not only that... he feels compelled to 'kill' something... If he can't find a coyote... it'll be an eagle, hawk, falcon, vulture... or whatever else he can find to shoot at. I know the type. 'Can't just enjoy the wild things w/o wantin' to kill somethin'. This isn't about self defense... it's a novelty. Well... he'll find out soon enough what this desert is about in August.

    Maybe have a run-in with a momma Javelina or one of 5 kinds of rattler. That is... if the cholla 'n 'pear don't tear his legs up first. We have a couple people disappear in this desert every year. 'Never fails.

    Then... there's the Border Patrol checkpoints. I don't think a huntin' license will float if he has a hang-up with them while open carrying. He's not here on an immigrant visa... he's a FOREIGN TOURIST. The AZConstitution extends to citizens and 'resident' aliens... not TOURISTS. If you are not engaged in 'hunting'... then you are carrying illegally. There's no way anybody could justify carrying into a McDonalds in Phoenix... or Wickenburg... or Tucson and claim they were 'hunting'. If he gets into a situation and actually has to shoot somebody... He's screwed! Then... there's the Indian nations to consider.

    As for you marshaul... ****! You can't even carry loaded in SF... and doubtful you OC at all in the city. A 'sanctuary' city at that. NOTHING preceeds our national sovereignty. Not that you've ever done anything (or would) to defend it.
    +100000000000000.

    I seems Arizona OC gun owners receive advice each week from well meaning out of state posters who should first deal with their own f*cked up gun carry laws, before they lecture us.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Sorry... I'm not ready to open the gate, haul down the flag and let anybody from elsewhere come waltzin' in doin' whatever the hell they feel like. At the border crossing into Nogales, Mexico... there's a big sign: "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED". Years ago... (1969) I startled a Canadian Border dude when he asked if I had any firearms. "Yeah... right here. A Winchester .30-30." I had to unload it and put it in the trunk.Today... I don't think I could cross into BC (or anywhere in Canada) with a firearm. If he can't carry in Canada... let him work to fix that in his own country.
    So.. Why don't you want him to be able to carry openly in Arizona? I did not find a single reason in the above paragraph

    Point is... this guy wants to carry for the novelty of it. Not only that... he feels compelled to 'kill' something... If he can't find a coyote... it'll be an eagle, hawk, falcon, vulture... or whatever else he can find to shoot at. I know the type. 'Can't just enjoy the wild things w/o wantin' to kill somethin'. This isn't about self defense... it's a novelty. Well... he'll find out soon enough what this desert is about in August.
    Why shouldn't he be able to open carry again? Because he is interested in what is legal to hunt with a pistol? He has only asked what was legal.

    Maybe have a run-in with a momma Javelina or one of 5 kinds of rattler. That is... if the cholla 'n 'pear don't tear his legs up first. We have a couple people disappear in this desert every year. 'Never fails.

    Then... there's the Border Patrol checkpoints. I don't think a huntin' license will float if he has a hang-up with them while open carrying.
    Why would he have a problem? It is legal.
    He's not here on an immigrant visa... he's a FOREIGN TOURIST. The AZConstitution extends to citizens and 'resident' aliens... not TOURISTS.
    I believe you are mistaken.
    If you are not engaged in 'hunting'... then you are carrying illegally.
    Why do you sayso?The law says if he has a hunting license he can legally possessfirearms.
    There's no way anybody could justify carrying into a McDonalds in Phoenix... or Wickenburg... or Tucson and claim they were 'hunting'. If he gets into a situation and actually has to shoot somebody... He's screwed! Then... there's the Indian nations to consider.
    Indian nation considerations apply to anyone who is not a member of the tribe.

    As for you marshaul... ****! You can't even carry loaded in SF... and doubtful you OC at all in the city. A 'sanctuary' city at that. NOTHING preceeds our national sovereignty. Not that you've ever done anything (or would) to defend it.
    Marshaul, thanks for your input. This forum is for everyone to contribute.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Being that my other address is in Virginia, where I can OC while drinking in bars, people should take my opinion with the grain of salt that it's worth, but not assert that I "am lecturing them when I need to deal with my own state's @#$%ed up laws". It's not like my opinion on OC is irrelevant. It's also just an opinion, which I will not "****" with.

    As for California, we're working on it.

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    marshaul wrote:
    The human right to self-defense precedes our national sovereignty.
    +++ - marshaul, unsurprisingly, gets it right.

    A right isn't a right if it's really just a privilege conferred by a piece of paper to people fortunate enough to be born or reside on a plot of land.

    Whether you live in Canada, Britain, Ghana, Indonesia, Iran, or anywhere else, human beings, by simple virtue of being human beings, have a right to own and carry weapons for the purpose of self defense, and to speak their mind freely - whether or not their governments choose to recognize that right or not, and as we all know, many don't. The right doesn't vanish in those countries - it is simply infringed or violated - illicitly and immorally - by statist governments.

    The issue of killing animals is to me a separate issue from whether or not one should be allowed to carry a gun for self defense. As for personal defense, a human life doesn't become worth less because it's not an American one.

    Rights aren't worth anything, and we have nothing on which to stand, if we reduce them to Constitutionally-granted privileges which only locals can enjoy. I have always opposed this idea of rights because it is the basis on which those rights are done away with by majoritarian votes, or in the name of public safety, or some "overriding" concern. In my book, nothing overrides rights, not even national sovereignty. Nothing can, or you weaken them to the point where you legitimize circumstances in which they *can* be taken away.

    A right applies universally to all human beings, or it isn't a right at all. I am completely cool with foreigners peaceably and responsibly carrying weapons in the United States. Don't care if they are from Central America if they're here with peaceable intent. I don't care if they're refugees from Afghanistan - so long as they are here with peaceful intent, with the intention not to violate the rights of others. That is the only standard to which anyone should be held.

    What I'm not in agreement with is people carrying weapons irresponsibly, aggressively, or for criminal intent, but again, this sentiment applies equally to fellow Arizonans as it does anyone else.

    A Canadian has a right to carry a gun here by virtue of having been born into our species. His Canadian nationality could not possibly be less relevant to the fact that he has a right by virtue of being a human being. It is the fact that we are "endowed by our creator (not nationality) with certain inalienable rights" that makes this so. I firmly believe this, and will not budge on this issue.

    Period. As for the legality of that, our own government infringes/violates the right to self defense through the laws that do exist. I'd simply caution anyone coming here to stay within the law if they value their liberty.

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