Open Carry for a Non-Resident Alien

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marshaul wrote:

So, basically, because you can't come up with a decent answer for my question, you talk about California some more? I thought this was the Arizona subforum... :banghead:

For the last time, I was raised in Virginia. Even if that weren't so, my current state of residence is wholly irrelevant.

Face it, your "conservative" mind just "gloms" on "illegal alien", and all of a sudden you conveniently forget that rights are derived from human nature rather than the Constitution (which merely enumerates a few of them as explicitly protected), and when confronted with this fact you have no response but to sputter illogical irrelevancies about California.

Even in Arizona, the Fourth amendment applies to all persons, not just citizens. Why not the Second?

I fail to understand what actually valid reason there is for denying the right to self-defense for any peaceable human being. So far, you've presented noting more than A: you don't like them, and B: the Bill of Rights doesn't protect illegals (which it, in fact, does, at least in parts).

At best, you still have yet to show why the 4th Amendment applies to everyone but only citizens have the right to self-defense.

Of course, this is an impossible argument, for no amount of legal or "intellectual" wrangling will change the fundamental basis of rights: that they are not distributed by government, but are derived from the nature of what human beings are.

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The right to self defense for any peaceable human being.

Right.....Well put, now Goggle the California Gun Control Act of 1923, when Sacramento with the help of the state KKK, passed CCW license legislation (may issue) and a two day waiting period aimed at controlling Chinese and Latino citizens.

I'll say it again, fix California's problems first, then come lecture us!

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I'm not lecturing you. I have no need of lecturing you; the law in Arizona permits the OP to carry guns (with a hunting permit), which is what I'm defending in the first place against attacks from supposedly "pro-gun" Arizonians.

And California is irrelevant.

You're not even being snarky, you're just demonstrating a profound inability to use reason.

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marshaul wrote:

I'm not lecturing you. I have no need of lecturing you; the law in Arizona permits the OP to carry guns (with a hunting permit), which is what I'm defending in the first place against attacks from supposedly "pro-gun" Arizonians.

And California is irrelevant.

You're not even being snarky, you're just demonstrating a profound inability to use reason.

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Cute, but you're still pissing in the wind.

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One of the most offensive things I've ever seen is a canadian border guard coming on a school bus crossing the border for a field trip with a garbage bag, asking for "self defense products" It's a natural right, and one that I feel every good person around the world is entitled to. I don't pretend to have all the answers about who should be allowed to do what when, but I do know I have no problems with a good person arming himself where he pleases.

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Wow, quite a discussion going.. I guess I should ‘clear a few things up’ so-to-speak.



Who am I??

Without saying too much – I am a 28 year old High School teacher who is also an active duty reservist in the Canadian Military.

I recently completed a 8 month tour in Afghanistan – quite the place.



Reason for visiting US?

My girlfriend and I are going on a road trip. Crossing at Detroit and driving to Utah (reason I posted on their site about the same issues), the to Nevada, Arizona, and back up through Colorado before making our way home.

Been to Arizona once, LOVED IT. I would like to move there one day possibly retirement. Something about the desert I guess (and no snow – for the most part!)



Reason for bringing firearms to States?

A few really.

One, to hunt. Why a pistol? Here in Canada, we are not allowed to hunt with a pistol – thus I would love to opportunity to try this as it is not something I am able to do at home.

Why a 9mm? Unfortunately, a 9mm Glock 17 is the only pistol I currently own. I may not be the best choice for hunting, but it is all I have.



Why am I not picky as to what to hunt?

Again, as we are not allowed to hunt with a pistol here, anything I can legally hunt with a 9mm (again, my only pistol) is fine. It is more the for the experience than actually getting anything.

I am an avid hunter here in Canada. Hunt with long guns all the time. No sense in hunting with a long gun in the States – I can do that at home.

This is about taking advantage of a great opportunity which is – thankfully – afforded to me – legally.

Yes, it is sad, I must visit another country to do this, but do that mean I should not take advantage of the opportunity?



Why Open Carry?

Simple. Security.

Again, I will be traveling with my girlfriend. Her well being is my #1 concern.



This may sound odd, but one thing I really remember while being in Afghanistan was this one night while on patrol. I was on the outskirts of some town or other, we had word that the Taliban had infiltrated the area recently. While I was walking in the dark, not knowing what was around the next corner – I can recall the feeling I had with vivid clarity, I was scared – it was the unknown. But then I felt my C7 (Standard issue rifle) and this calm came over me. The fact I knew that if and when something happened – I had full confidence in myself, and my training, that I could defend myself and that of the men with me.



There is no greater right that the right to defend yourself. Unfortunately, my government does not understand this. Thankfully for you – yours does.



Hope this answers some of your questions.

I can understand why some may be upset with armed citizens coming to your country. But, if rest assured. I am doing so legally.

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Come on over spartans. If you peruse the AZ G&F site posted earlier you will find all about our seasons. I know there is a rabbit out there just waiting for your 9MM.

We are a country full of opinions if nothing else. Some for some against some good some bad. Just like most other places.

PS: Thank you for your service in our joint venture.

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If you're coming through the Detroit/Windsor route, it will definitely be possible to arrange a Detroit area OC'er meeting (as in coffee, a picnic, lunch, etc.) for you if you want to. It would just have to be timed right.

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I appreciate you going into more detail, it did help meto understand..the first post had me going. Also, being prior military myself...I want to thank you for your service.

I understand that you want to protect your girlfriend and yourself, and as stated before I welcome tourists and those who come thru the 'front door' to become citizens as well.

That being said, I personally am not comfortable with this law as it does look like a big loophole for those that could cause harm to American citizens by claiming they just want to hunt. (I am not saying that is your intent). Also, this law and everything associated with it is new to me...I did not know it even existed until today.

It's a tough one for sure. I agree you have the right to defending yourself and others, without any doubt. Then 9/11 happened, and the investigation into everything leading up to it showed us loop holes in our system. I guess the question would be how can you defend yourself and others in another country without carrying a firearm? If I go to Canada, can I carry?

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Since when is a terrorist going to look for hunting license loopholes?

The "loophole" of 9/11 was one created by government disarming of airplane passengers, not one unfilled by some or other lack of government "security".

Edit: Also, the law doesn't allow them suitcase nukes. It allows them handguns, and rifles. Not much of a "loophole" by terrorist standards.

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marshaul wrote:

Since when is a terrorist going to look for hunting license loopholes?

The "loophole" of 9/11 was one created by government disarming of airplane passengers, not one unfilled by some or other lack of government "security".

Edit: Also, the law doesn't allow them suitcase nukes. It allows them handguns, and rifles. Not much of a "loophole" by terrorist standards.

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Oh man, if I ever start a band, I am going to steal that: "Canucks with Suitcase Nukes". We could be the next Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet.

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Crossfire Jedi wrote:

If I go to Canada, can I carry?

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Unfortunetely, no you cannot Open Carry.

As I mentioned, A Canadian citizen cannot even open carry.

A handgun (which our government has said is a 'restricted' firearm) must be kept in a locked case, with a trigger lock on it - and unloaded, in a safe (or locked room, which cannot be easily broken into).

to to transport the pistol, it must be in a locked case, with a trigger lock on it. you can only transport it to and from a approved range.

you cannot drive around with a 'restricted' gun in your car just going from A to B. you must be travelling from your residence to an approved gun range.

My government has been stripping its citizens of their rights for the last 100 years. today 'big black scary guns' and of course handguns, are the sole cause of ALL crime on this planet - from drugs, to B & E , to tax evasion.

Fortunately, there are still a few of us that understand that this is complete BS. and are fighting to change it - but it is an uphill battle to say the least

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crisisweasel wrote:

Oh man, if I ever start a band, I am going to steal that: "Canucks with Suitcase Nukes". We could be the next Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet.

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Here ya go: (Tune of Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap AC/DC)

Canucks with Nukes

Who’s that a’lookin’ like an Eskimo
What’s that there in his hand
Can’t be too careful… thought you ought’a know
They’re comin’ in our land - OW!

Canucks with nukes
On our streets
Canucks with nukes
Polar creeps

Canucks with nukes
On our streets
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets

Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets

I take my pick-up down to Wally World
To buy some Chinese junk…
Then some Canadian parks next to me
He’s got a bomb in his trunk

No place to go
No place to hide
I see ‘em everywhere
I get in line down at the Mickey D’s
They follow me down there… Nooo!

Canucks with nukes
On our streets
Canucks with nukes
Polar creeps

Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets

I saw a Mountie walkin’ ‘round the mall
A suitcase nuke in hand
I swear to God they’re gonna kill us all
You gotta understand OW!

When I go home
I’m not alone
They’re hidin’ in my garage
I hear ‘em whisperin’ out there in French
Plotting their espionage OH!

Canucks with nukes
On our streets
Canucks with nukes
Polar creeps

Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets OW!

I put a call in to the FBI
'Told of the plan underway
Tehy told me 'go 'n get a tinfoil hat
'Then to have a Nice Day... Eh?

Canucks with nukes
On our streets
Canucks with nukes
Polar creeps

Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets OW!

Radiation, EMP, Mushroom Clouds... EXPLOSIONS Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhgggh!

Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
Canucks with nukes
And they're on our streets
BOOM….sssssstttt.

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lol, that would make a good cartoon.

Wow....

I came to this board looking for specific information regarding NIAs using the OC as an option.
To my surprise, the rabid xenophobia of some was quickly evident. On the flipside, so was the moderating voice of reasonable men.

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” Benjamin Franklin.

Notice he says society and not country or specific geographical location.

I find it noticably ignorant of some to brag about how they "earned" their rights through some act of service to their country. What a crock. Every citizen of your country is afforded the same rights NO MATTER their achievements or meritorious service. So long as you haven't proven yourself unworthy of the trust by participating in a criminal act, your forefathers GUARANTEED everyone the same rights. To do otherwise is to create a class system that your very country was created to escape from.

Some might want to think about that, it's obvious that they haven't. Too bad a foriegner has to teach you about your own history.

I also find it an ignorance of the highest magnitude that Canadians and Americans are fighting a war together in the same theatre, but yet some would fear a Canadian who wanted to open carry in a state that allows it, and where both the American state and federal laws allow it? The prejudice presented is of the same ilk as the anti-gunners: fear what you don't understand. That's a sad commentary on the thought process of some Arizona forum members.

I'm a Canadian who's served in the Canadian military, and then in two federal LEO positions. I have friends in Oregon who are still active military, and I go down to visit, BS, laugh, and shoot with them. If I can open carry in parts of the USA, great. If not, fine. I will abide by the law of the land as prescribed by the operating government body in power.

As it stands right now, OC is a legal option for NIAs in some areas. To think that a Canadian who has gone through all the hoops and processes to legally aquire and own a gun in a place like Canada, and then goes through all the BATF requirements as well, is going to all of a sudden go on a shooting/crime spree while visiting the USA is laughable at best.

Canadian gun owners know more about responsible gun ownership than many Americans, because we are mandated by our laws to need a greater degree of responsibility in aquiring, possessing and using firearms than most US states would ever dream of. To us, it is NOT an inalliable right; we DO have to "earn it".

A citizen of the USA is subject to abide by it's laws or make efforts to legitimately change them. If you "don't care about what the law says" as was posted here by a member, make the changes through whatever political body you have faith in. Otherwise, put the tinfoil hat back on, barricade the door of your double-wide, and keep reloading until TEOTWAWKI comes to pass.

You may hate what I've said, but you can't deny it's truth.

You may even attack my country for it's policies and laws, but I'd probably agree with you for the most part. Those are separate issues. This whole thread was started to get information of OC laws and FACTS, not opinions or rantings of nervous Nellies.

Perhaps I'll put a sticker of the Candian flag on my holster should I find myself in AZ anytime soon. On second thought, I think that just wouldn't be very "Canadian" of me. In my service to my country I've learned that discretion is the better part of valour. I know many American service members who have also learned that lesson. Unfortunately, now I know of (at least one) who never got that far.

Your low post count Taemian makes me think you are trolling.

I thought this thread died long ago. Now that it is reopened I am curious whether Spartans has completed his journey across the US and, if so, did he shoot a rabbit or coyote.

Grimes said:

Your low post count Taemian makes me think you are trolling.

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I'm not entirely sure what trolling is as you define it. As I mentioned, I did a Google search. I did so trying using the keywords "Canadian open carry USA" and this thread came up. I am simply looking for specifics for NIAs and transport/carry options. There really isn't much listed, and since everyone seems to say it's so hopeless in getting answers from the BATF, I thought this would be the place to register and try to get answers.

Living in Canada, I have no other need to post on this site, hence the low post count. I merely joined to see if someone had clear information or links. Reviving this thread from the dead seemed the only option when I came across it, as the question was never answered with any kind of experience listed.

I've put in a call to the BATF to call me back to discuss the matter, and given them my assigned NIA6 certificate numbers for my pistol and shotgun. I'll do my best to remember to post up my experience as I'm able.

Rest assured, I meant every word I said in my post and was not trolling or ogreing or orcing or whatever...there's a mllion places other than the Web that choose to spend my time. Home, work, the range, the track....you get the picture.

Update

Well, thought I'd post an update about my experience. I had zero problems with any LEOs, or the general public for the most part. I was with a fairly well known ex-Marine and some of his friends most of the time we open-carried, and the LEO community is fairly small there. No doubt this played a role, but all the paperwork was in a pocket just in case. I'm sure most of the white collar folks just figured we were some LEOs or something, (though we were concious to NEVER present ourselves in such a manner) since most of the citizens are ignorant of OC laws even in their own state.

Now trying to find a holster for my M&P 9 with the Viridian X5L may be the only reason I can't open carry....nobody makes one!:banghead:

Taemian said:

Now trying to find a holster for my M&P 9 with the Viridian X5L may be the only reason I can't open carry....nobody makes one!

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If you like kydex, Blade-tech (my favorite) might be able to make a holster for you. I had them make a knife sheath for me years ago.

There is also a local kydex holster maker, Buy Brown, who made a hoslter for an old Star pistol for my nephew. He'll need to use your gun for the mold.

I'd recommend avoiding the generic one-size-fits-all nylon holsters.

Fred

azcdlfred said:

If you like kydex, Blade-tech (my favorite) might be able to make a holster for you. I had them make a knife sheath for me years ago.

There is also a local kydex holster maker, Buy Brown, who made a hoslter for an old Star pistol for my nephew. He'll need to use your gun for the mold.

I'd recommend avoiding the generic one-size-fits-all nylon holsters.

Fred

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Thanks for the info. I contacted Blade-Tech a few months ago, even offering to drive my gun to their offices (about 2 hrs away), but they haven't emailed back after their first response. The X5L (Gen 1) is going to Gen 2, so manufacturers are waiting to see if the body is new or not.

Plus, I'm a lefty so it's a pain for them I guess.

I'll check that other link!