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Thread: asked not to carry

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    Okay, so earlier this evening my friend and I were wasting time just hanging out this evening. We made our way over to the Walmart by Cortana Mall. I've never had a problem at the ones in Denham and Central, so I didn't think too much of carrying there. But, on our way out (like 10 feet from the door) after just buying a hat a EBR LEO approaches and starts askin' why I'm carrying and such. So, I tell him that I carry everywhere. The usual little batch of questions about a permit or whatever. I tell him that i've never had a problem at the other ones. We walked over to the manager and they were both trying to tell me that since it was private property they could ask that I not carry in the store.

    Now, it's my understanding there has been stuff from corporate stating that they were supposed to comply with state law. They said this was not the case. They were real nice and polite about it. I ended up just saying okay, shook their hands and left.

    So, i guess I'm wondering what course of action I should take. Do I write or call someone specifically or what?

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    Hate to hear that, I have carried in the Marrero wal mart (both of them ) with no incident. Some one said , there is even a thread on here somewhere about it, They have a copy of or were told by corporate, that wal mart has a policy of following the law of the state in which the store is in. I am sure some one with better facts will come in before too long to help you.

    My opinion, do what i did to home depot. go home, print up the laws and with a positive attitude, go back andgive them to the people who confronted you, say thank you and leave.

    Some times that works, sometimes it doesn't. good luck and sorry to hear you were screwed with.


    By the way, anybody know anything about malls?

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    whoopingllama wrote:
    Okay, so earlier this evening my friend and I were wasting time just hanging out this evening. We made our way over to the Walmart by Cortana Mall. I've never had a problem at the ones in Denham and Central, so I didn't think too much of carrying there. But, on our way out (like 10 feet from the door) after just buying a hat a EBR LEO approaches and starts askin' why I'm carrying and such. So, I tell him that I carry everywhere. The usual little batch of questions about a permit or whatever. I tell him that i've never had a problem at the other ones. We walked over to the manager and they were both trying to tell me that since it was private property they could ask that I not carry in the store.

    Now, it's my understanding there has been stuff from corporate stating that they were supposed to comply with state law. They said this was not the case. They were real nice and polite about it. I ended up just saying okay, shook their hands and left.

    So, i guess I'm wondering what course of action I should take. Do I write or call someone specifically or what?
    Customer no-Service, ask them what the policy is regarding state laws for firearms carry and such. Tell them what happened and such. People have already gotten statements that say wal-mart follows STATE LAW, not a managers preference. People's comfort is not a right, if their uncomfortable they should ask questions, not b@$%^ moan and whine to the manager about you.

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    I would call corporate tell them what happened. From everything I'veread over the years on other gun forums if it legal on your state its OK.
    Since it seems in your case they had no complaints only the manager didn't want you to carry they mightset that manager straight.

    Good luck and let us know what happenes.

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    whoopingllama wrote:
    Okay, so earlier this evening my friend and I were wasting time just hanging out this evening. We made our way over to the Walmart by Cortana Mall. I've never had a problem at the ones in Denham and Central, so I didn't think too much of carrying there. But, on our way out (like 10 feet from the door) after just buying a hat a EBR LEO approaches and starts askin' why I'm carrying and such. So, I tell him that I carry everywhere. The usual little batch of questions about a permit or whatever. I tell him that i've never had a problem at the other ones. We walked over to the manager and they were both trying to tell me that since it was private property they could ask that I not carry in the store.

    So, i guess I'm wondering what course of action I should take. Do I write or call someone specifically or what?
    Just what law was the cop enforcing in the lot? Corporate policy is not a statutory matter, and a cop should only open his yap about such matters after receiving a complaint from a corporation. In no case, should the cops go soliciting violations to corporate policy.

    It's getting bad.

    The cop broke the law. File a complaint.

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    I was still inside the store about to walk out. I wasn't in the parking lot. As far as law was concerned, he seemed to think he was enforcing the one that had to do with private property wherein the "owner" had requested their be no visible firearms on civilians. He was operating under what he was told by management there. And the management was very certain that it was store policy to not allow the open carrying of firearms by civilians. I never asked and he didn't say if someone else had said something or if he had just noticed me as I was walking out.

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    whoopingllama wrote:
    Okay, so earlier this evening my friend and I were wasting time just hanging out this evening. We made our way over to the Walmart by Cortana Mall. I've never had a problem at the ones in Denham and Central, so I didn't think too much of carrying there. But, on our way out (like 10 feet from the door) after just buying a hat a EBR LEO approaches and starts askin' why I'm carrying and such. So, I tell him that I carry everywhere. The usual little batch of questions about a permit or whatever. I tell him that i've never had a problem at the other ones. We walked over to the manager and they were both trying to tell me that since it was private property they could ask that I not carry in the store.

    Now, it's my understanding there has been stuff from corporate stating that they were supposed to comply with state law. They said this was not the case. They were real nice and polite about it. I ended up just saying okay, shook their hands and left.

    So, i guess I'm wondering what course of action I should take. Do I write or call someone specifically or what?
    My understanding of the "private Property" thing is, that a business can't claim that as it has entrances open to public entry. A house qualifies as any entry is strictly at the owners permission only. Could be wrong on that of course.

    There are threads on this site is several states forums regarding wal mart policy, so a search should find you the info you need. Find it a definitely check with wal mart customer service. Go as high as you need to to get a straight answer. It should match what others have gotten. Then be sure and go back to the manager with a copy and educate him/her.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

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    You handled it fairly well, IMHO. the LEO was probably doing an extra duty assignment and wasjust doing what the manager there asked him to do, so don't be too hard on him. Technically, if the manager tells you to leave, you must do so, even if you know that their corporate policy says otherwise. You can always go back later with a copy of the policy or simply call Walmart Corporate and lodge a complaint.



    Somewhere on this board is a thread with a copy of a letter from Walmart stating it's policy. If you search for it you'll find it. If you can't find it, I'll try to post another copy of it laterthat I have saved on my home computer.

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    Of the three you mentioned, the Cortana Wal Mart is the one where you will most likely need to carry.

    The LEO was almost certainly working a detail, paid by Wal Mart to provide security. If he asks you to leave because you were OCing then he is not breaking the law. He is implementing Wal Mart's right to ask you to leave. The problem is that the management of that store is not following company policy. The fight here is with the manager of that store.

    I called the store. 225-923-3400
    Manager Ralph Stewart told me that policy was no firearms allowed.
    Ralph's boss, David Craft was in a meeting.
    David's boss, Shawn Copeland was also unable to come to the phone.

    Ralph suggested I call 1800WalMart.



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    merged with above.

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    derf wrote:

    I called the store. 225-923-3400
    Manager Ralph Stewart told me that policy was no firearms allowed.
    Ralph's boss, David Craft was in a meeting.
    David's boss, Shawn Copeland was also unable to come to the phone.

    Ralph suggested I call 1800WalMart.



    You'll play this game for a few days if your up for it.

    Call that 1800WalMart and see how far that gets you.

    I know MEM posted the District Manager for LA on here somewhere. That's who you need to call. MORE than once she's had to handle this situationI believe.



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    derf wrote:
    Ralph suggested I call 1800WalMart.

    Maybe you should suggest Ralph call 1800WalMart.

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    This thread has contact info-> http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...=walmart+legal

    good luck.
    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

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    Call that 1800WalMart and see how far that gets you.
    I tried. I got tired of waiting and hung up.

    I asked for the district manager's number when he gave me the 800walmart number.



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    Wow, I didn't expect such an awesome response. This is great. You are all incredibly helpful. I too will try to call when I get a chance to see if I can get anywhere. I just sent an email as well. I'll let y'all know if that gets any results.

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    It's not the cop's duty or even business to know Wal Mart's corporate policy. He was only acting in all likelyhood because the store manager..a representative of the property owner, asked him to.

    You're problem lies with WalMart, not the cops in this instance. The cops have the duty to enforce property rights as much as your rights. Just as I have the right to ask you to remove your shoes before entering my home, a business owner, also a property owner, has the same rights regarding his establishment. You alsohave the right to NOT come into my home as a result, just like you have a right to NOT go into that business.

    File your complaint with WalMart. If the store manager does not know the corporate policy and/or violated it, corporate needs to know about it.

    It looks as if you handled it in a polite, professional manner. Exactly the way we need to be conducting ourselves in public. Only then can we begin to shed the gun-toting wack-job image we're working so hard to shed. Create the change by being an ambassador to the cause, not part of the problem.


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    JeepSeller wrote:
    It's not the cop's duty or even business to know Wal Mart's corporate policy. He was only acting in all likelyhood because the store manager..a representative of the property owner, asked him to.

    You're problem lies with WalMart, not the cops in this instance. The cops have the duty to enforce property rights as much as your rights. Just as I have the right to ask you to remove your shoes before entering my home, a business owner, also a property owner, has the same rights regarding his establishment. You alsohave the right to NOT come into my home as a result, just like you have a right to NOT go into that business.

    File your complaint with WalMart. If the store manager does not know the corporate policy and/or violated it, corporate needs to know about it.

    It looks as if you handled it in a polite, professional manner. Exactly the way we need to be conducting ourselves in public. Only then can we begin to shed the gun-toting wack-job image we're working so hard to shed. Create the change by being an ambassador to the cause, not part of the problem.
    Amen Brother--- I agree the situation was handeled properly and in no way was I casting stones at ANY ONE who would have handeled it differently. I also am most certainly notcalling anyone of us a wack-job, just agreeing that we do to some have a negative image and such well handled responses help our cause more than a poorly exacuted shouting match.



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    What few of you people seem to grasp in your analyses is that we are being invited into Wal-Mart, thus the legal term "invitees" and the corresponding legal duty owed such persons.

    I often hear talk about a right to go here and there, but when we go into a store, it's because of their inducement to enter, not out of our desire to enter their store. They have the billboards, bright lights, wide entrances and prominent locations to lure us in. If they're going to remove their invitation, they have a legal obligation to be as absolutely polite about it as possible.

    I keep my rights wherever I go. If you want me to enter, you accept that my rights come with me. If you want me to leave, you may get to ask, but you're going to be darn apologetic for the bait-and-switch that you just pulled.

    We seem to have accepted a fascism, an inverted worldview, that considers the business the first actor and the citizens needy supplicants who are hoping to be allowed access to the Great Business. This corporatism is only a shade off national socialism, and I'm not exaggerating. We Americans need to pull our heads out of our behinds and start thinking clearly again.

    If the business employs persons to remove invitations, these persons had darn well be meek and mild and exceedingly deferential in their demeanor. It's the poorest of manners to ask me in only to throw me out. To use or threaten force in the affront is simply intolerable.

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    Another thing, once an OC'er has accepted an invitation into a store, it is absolutely unacceptable for the police to respond to a complaint from the store, absent more.

    The only response to the store from a law-obeying, citizen-obeying police officer is:

    "So? Is he doing anything wrong?"

    "Well, no. We're just scared."

    "Is it posted that OC'ers can't enter?"

    "No."

    "Then it's a private matter. You invited him in. Next time, limit the extent of your invitation. Call us if he does something wrong."

    Police are not to engage in fascism by being tax-funded corporate security.

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    smoking357 wrote:
    It's the poorest of manners to ask me in only to throw me out. To use or threaten force in the affront is simply intolerable.
    Last I checked, manners were not spelled out bylegal statute. Please cite your source.

    Shirt and shoeshave long since been accepted as "rules" for these establishments. They politely ask that you do not enter unless in compliance...in spite of their "invitation". You certainly have a right to go barefoot wouldn't you say? There's no laws that say you MUST wear shoes. But, a business has the right to require them and no one would argue that.

    Asking, or "inviting" customers' to enter without weapons is no different. Yes, they've invited you, but, under their terms. No one would argue that simply because they "invited" you, that you could just help yourself to their possesions and walk out. As a GUEST of their property, you must act in accordance to the property owner's guidelines.

    Just because I invite you into my home does not mean that I still cannot tell you to leave your muddy shoes outside. I still have the right to tell you to conduct yourself according to the rules of my home. You would not, for instance, be allowed to put your feet on my furnature, and it would be considered just plain rude of you and I would be well with in my right to tell you to leave and if you do not comply, I'd then be well within my rights to call the cops and have you forcibly removed.



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    JeepSeller wrote:
    smoking357 wrote:
    It's the poorest of manners to ask me in only to throw me out. To use or threaten force in the affront is simply intolerable.
    Last I checked, manners were not spelled out bylegal statute. Please cite your source.

    Shirt and shoeshave long since been accepted as "rules" for these establishments. They politely ask that you do not enter unless in compliance...in spite of their "invitation". You certainly have a right to go barefoot wouldn't you say? There's no laws that say you MUST wear shoes. But, a business has the right to require them and no one would argue that.

    Asking, or "inviting" customers' to enter without weapons is no different. Yes, they've invited you, but, under their terms. No one would argue that simply because they "invited" you, that you could just help yourself to their possesions and walk out. As a GUEST of their property, you must act in accordance to the property owner's guidelines.

    Just because I invite you into my home does not mean that I still cannot tell you to leave your muddy shoes outside. I still have the right to tell you to conduct yourself according to the rules of my home. You would not, for instance, be allowed to put your feet on my furnature, and it would be considered just plain rude of you and I would be well with in my right to tell you to leave and if you do not comply, I'd then be well within my rights to call the cops and have you forcibly removed.

    How dare you try to talk sense tosomeone smokin whatever.

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    charlie12 wrote:

    How dare you try to talk sense tosomeone smokin whatever.
    Yea, I know. I just can't resist trying to help the helpless.



    Besides...I thought we were being ignored by the trolls.....I guess not, huh? :quirky

    It's a shame too, was nice and quiet there for a day or so when we could speak the truth without listening to the trolls crying about it for 10 pages..

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    I guess in the end, it boils down to the fact that I just don't understand why you'd want to do business in an establishment that doesn't want your business in the first place. It defy's logic. Particularly in this economy, if you don't want my money, there's someone down the street who does. I'm not saying that's what the OP did in this case. I think they handled themselves admirably in this scenario. But, some people just don't get it. Some people seem to WANT to be accosted trying to exercise their right.

    Why would you even want to patronize an establishment that doesn't support our 2A rights? Wouldn't you rather support financially a place that supports our rights as opposed to restricting them?

    And, if you're not in there to spend money, then why are you there? Walking into a place OC simply to get a rise and create a scene is no different than the frustrating trolls we're seeing as of late here who serve no purpose, contribute nothing, and only create a scene for their own amusement. Why be that troll in a business? What do you hope to accomplish? Certainly nothing by creating a scene and getting thrown out... you think you're calling attention to our cause? How do you think that your story is going to play on the 6 o'clock news? You think the reporters are going to report YOUR side or WalMarts? Think they're going to paint you as a hero or a whack-job? You honestly think an anti-gun fella is going to watch the TV and sit there and say "look at that poor gun toting guy there".... or you think that there going to sit there and say "Look at that gun toting crazy..that's why guns should be banned'? How do you propose to change that guys mind in that manner?

    I've said it before..the only thing we accomplish when we represent our cause poorly is to facilitate those that wish to restrict us. We have to be ambassadors to our rights, and, only then can we hopefully turn the tide of public perception. Because, without public perception, we can't possibly turn the political AND business environment.

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    Guys, I know some of you have a personal problem with smokin357, but if you can step back from that for just a moment and pretend he isn't the poster, you might notice that there is a subtle, but still valid point to the concern brought forward.

    If I can make an admittedly imperfect analogy for a moment: there is a concept known as "attractive nuisance" whereby a property owner can be held liable for actions on his property which he neither authorized nor intended. It is frequently used in cases where children drown in someone's backyard pool, and so you may be familiar with it.

    In somewhat, but admittedly not exactly, manner, any store which is open to the public may be presumed to allow for anything inside the store which would be acceptable in any public place outside of it - unless they have a well publicized prohibition against it. This is why most of the big shopping malls in this country have posted rules near their entrances and why some states have legally defined the means for prohibition of certain actions, like carrying firearms.

    I have never seen any type of "no guns" sign on any Walmart I've ever been to; and the Walmart corporate policy has been a subject of much discussion on many gun boards (not just this one) for a VERY long time. In most instances on those boards, someone eventually posts a notice from someone in the Walmart management, higher than an individual store level, saying that it is company policy to follow the gun laws of the area.

    This is why there is such conflict in a Walmart where the citizen patronizing the store believes he is in the right with regards to corporate policy. The thread in which we are currently discussing this is an example of good behavior by all parties (except the manager who apparently doesn't know Walmarts policy). This incident was handled well by the gun-owner and calling Walmart's 800 number may actually do some good, eventually, at this particular store. I have called this number and gotten a positive response from Walmart on other issues, so I would tend to think it's worth a try on this issue.

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    Excellent points and well presented XD-GEM. First of all, the problem with Smoking is not the fact that occasionally he may offer up a valid point, it's the fact that any point is lost in his condensending, insulting, offensive attitude and a history of inflamatory posts. Heenters a converstation being conducted in a completely civil, polite manner and immediately tosses in a comment completely unrelated, off topic and totally inflamatory then spends 10 or more pages nursing the conflict he creates. So, anything that he might say of any value gets lost in the mess.

    I agree that if a business isn't posted or has a well known policy that we should all have the right to attempt to enter and continue the rights we enjoy on the street outside.

    However, as a "guest" to that property, we have to comply with their "house" rules. And if the proprty owner, or it's representative, decide they no longer want you as a "guest" they have the right to change thier mind regarding thier "invitation".

    Just becauseI "invited" you, doesn't mean you have free reign or any rights to my property. It's still my property. I can ask you to leave because I decided I don't like the hat you're wearing. The reason I ask you to leave is truly imaterial. It's my property, yea, I may have invited you, but, now I've changed my mind and I have the right to eject you from MY property. I don't see a business as any different.

    The State of Florida allows all property owners to carrya firearmwithin their own property without any permit, because it's their "castle" or their home...right? The state also allows for a business owner to do the same because, in a sense, the state recognizes that business as an extension of the owner's "castle".

    If I eject you from my castle, and ask LE to do it for me, your beef isn't with LE..but, with me. LE is doing their job and enforcing the owner's wishes regarding their property. At that point, it's not a question of legalaities, but, civil disagreement. LE has a duty to enforce the property owner's wishes regarding his property rights. Since asking a "guest" to leave isn't breaking any criminal code, LE must side with the property owner. If that same representative came onto YOUR property and called LE to remove you, LE would side with you, the property owner.

    I've never said that WalMart handled this situation properly. IF they're violating coporate policy, it's not LE's fault. Not even WalMart's fault, but, the representative who asked the "guest" to leave via LE.

    Edit: before anyone tossed it out there...it's been argued that a business owner couldn't revoke that "invitation" to a person of color..etc... THAT would be illegal and LE facilitating that request would also be illegal and unethical. Discrimination is illegal in this country. Asking an OCer' torepsecta property owner's wishes regarding weapons within theirpropertyis currently NOT illegal.

    End of THAT particular argument.

    I'm not advocating it all by the way...I personally feel we should be able to carry where ever, when ever, and how ever we choose. But, currently, that's not the case..and we can't change the tide of current laws by being poor ambassadors to our cause is my real point here.



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