My financial situation has me afraid to OC lately.

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NavyLT wrote:

To answer your question, I don't feel the same way. I'll take my chances and stand up for my rights and defend and support the Constitution as I am sworn to do.

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Aye, same.

As far as I'm concerned, the most important thing is just to carry and support the right of others to carry. OC is just a plus to allow for the peaceful advertisement of that right to others, AND to help protect a fundamental right.

I don't want to wake up some day and find out that we passed some idiotic law like the poor schmucks in Texas and Florida have to put up with, making them wear clothing they normally wouldn't in conditions they normally would not for fear of "printing" or some other such idiocy, or perhaps worse.

You are suppose to learn that when you ask a question on a public forum based around supporting our fundamental rights, your not just going to get people who agree with you that answer. Gotta take the good with the bad in a free....anything!

"Carry On!"

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Just to be clear, I did not state that I will not OC. I am simply more afraid of a legal action against me, since at this time it would threaten my ability to support myself.

The original question was not really meant to be directed towards those people who are not currently feeling any financial burden, but they are of course welcome to chime in. If I had a million extra dollars, or even a hundred extra dollars, my viewpoint on consequences would be different.

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I can appreciate your sentiments and view this situation very similiar to OC / CC / No-C discussions. OC when I can, CC when I can't, No-C at work where I'd instantly lose my job. Financial reality does matter. Although my coworkers certainly know I am a gun enthusiast and carry most places.

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ShooterMcGavin wrote:

Last summer, I open carried often without worrying. However, last summer, I had some extra cash if I needed to post bail or hire a lawyer to get some unlawful charges dropped. Now, I don't have any extra money. If a 'bad' cop wanted to bring me in because he didn't know the law, spending the necessary $500-1,000 to hire a lawyer could end up costing me my house.

I know what the laws are, but I can't recite the exact number of ever law that I might have to discuss with a cop who stops me. Is that so wrong?

Is anyone else in my shoes out there?


P.S. I don't have an issue open carrying in and around the Seattle area. *My response below might shed a little bit of light, or not*

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I hear ya brother! There are places I go that I am pretty confident it is not illegal to OC (MO doesn't have preemption) but where I have information that OC will not be well received and where it is likely that cops will "find a reason". Because I own small local businesses and have employees and partners who rely on me and a wife who also relies on me, there are times that I just decide it is not worth the potential cost to OC.

Not only would I have the cost and time of defense, it is also going to be in the newspaper. As a business owner who deals with large sums of other people's money in a not too densely populated area where people seem to know everyone else's business, the financial burden of an attorney and court is only a small portion of what it might cost me down the road.

Now, when I am on vacation out of town I almost always OC even into places or situations where while I know it is legal I also know might cause me a problem with uninformed or overly enthusiastic public servants. I do make my wife aware of the potential before walking into it, and on a few occasions I have agreed not to OC because if a problem had arisen it would have interfered with something she really wanted to do.

The vast majority of the members here we know from polls a) have a concealed carry license/permit and b) both conceal and open carry depending on laws and circumstances. Don't let them bust your chops Shooter! We all have different reasons to carry or not carry and how we do or do not carry from day to day, hour to hour. The "cost" of OC varies greatly from person to person, situation to situation, and includes far more than just the potential financial costs - there is a significant "opportunity cost" involved in many places and in many situations.

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It would certainly hurt my finances and possibly work to be falsely arrested and jailed, but the idea that I would quickly get such a bogus charge overturned and then have all the requisites for a very lucrative suit against the defending department would make it seem like a wise investment to OC. That, and I WILL NOT allow government thugs to threaten and cowtow me into not exercising my rights. If they violate the color of law, it's going to be hard for a while, and it will not be fun, but those who fight for freedom everywhere have to endure hardships and struggles before they emerge victorious.

If you don't want to go through that, then fine, don't OC. So long as you respect the rights of those that carry however they choose, I have no beef with you or what you choose to do. Please stick around and learn as much as you can, show up to the OC meets in the area, get to know people. I think the more you see others around you carrying without incident, the more comfortable you will become. You'll start to realize just how uncommon the harassment really is; I carry almost every day without incident......never had more than a simple contact with the police. And if you still don't decide OC is for you....so be it. I certaintly won't think any less of you for making that informed decision.

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quickly get such a bogus charge overturned and then have all the requisites for a very lucrative suit

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I take it you haven't actually experienced our lovely legal system for anything more significant than a traffic ticket, eh?

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Our courts are no longer part of a justice system , they are pretty much a processing station now. I have came out on the bad side a few times because I can't afford lawyers. Its a shame that justice isn't cheap. I had same experiences with L&I, with IRS and a lot of other government institutions.

For me personally It has strengthened my resolve to openly carry. When the system is wrong I buck it. I have had a lot of stress because of this and alot of financial woes too. But I am who I am.

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Correct me if Im wrong, but have calledmy insurance company to check on an "umbrella policy". I know that it would cover my defense if I were to have to actually use my weapon but Im not sure for lesser type charges. And for the $1,000,000 coverage the it provides, 20 to 30 extra bucks a month isnt all that bad.

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Good criminal defense attorney (top tier local): $2500-$5000 up front to baby sit a case to trial.

$10,000-$20,000 to take it to trail (depending on a lot of variables).

Be ready to put down $15k up front. Better to start paying at the first sign of need, than to wait and hand the attorney a bigger mess.

That's my $.02

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IF you are an NRA member, and you are being prosecuted for just exercising your right to bear arms in a lawful way... they'll pay your legal fees and even send a lawyer to represent you. But only if you haven't committed a crime with the gun... I think there could be a case for fighting the unconstitutional federal ban on guns in the post office.

Now I don't know if this is an Urban Legend or if its real, but I heard of a man arrested for carrying while putting mail into amail box on the premise that the property the box sits on is Federal Post Office Property and therefore, the man was breaking Federal Law by carrying while on Federal Post Office Property. It was a few years ago that I heard that story and I tried to confirm, but found nothing.

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Dave_pro2a wrote:

Good criminal defense attorney (top tier local): $2500-$5000 up front to baby sit a case to trial.

$10,000-$20,000 to take it to trail (depending on a lot of variables).

Be ready to put down $15k up front. Better to start paying at the first sign of need, than to wait and hand the attorney a bigger mess.

That's my $.02

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Uh....you better try again. A top notch criminal defense attorney is going to have a NON-REFUNDABLE retainer of $10,000 - $15,000 and it is going to cost upwards of $50,000 to take it to trial.

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What have we become that it takes money for justice....our system is not broken but being abused by lawyers and government and countless other special interests.

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I can sympathize with your situation. A legal encounter like that would make most anyone very cautious of further proceedings.
I have been the target of mistreatment by a PD before, and tho it was 35 years ago, it has left an indelible mark.
I think you have struck a reasoned measure of caution in your situation. Perhaps in time you will be open to a more expressive extent to OC or other lawful exercise of your civil rights.
Not sure pointing to the Post Office was a comment in your favor.
Neither was asking you to "grow a pair" something that aided the thread.
You are re-establishing where your comfort level is regarding your civil rights. OC is one place where this can be edgy, especially if you recently got rousted.

Good for you.


ShooterMcGavin wrote:

Last summer, I open carried often without worrying. However, last summer, I had some extra cash if I needed to post bail or hire a lawyer to get some unlawful charges dropped. Now, I don't have any extra money. If a 'bad' cop wanted to bring me in because he didn't know the law, spending the necessary $500-1,000 to hire a lawyer could end up costing me my house.

I know what the laws are, but I can't recite the exact number of ever law that I might have to discuss with a cop who stops me. Is that so wrong?

Is anyone else in my shoes out there?


P.S. I don't have an issue open carrying in and around the Seattle area. *My response below might shed a little bit of light, or not*

Click to expand...