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Thread: Ignorance in Hendersonville, NC

  1. #1
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    On my way home from work one day a week or so ago, I stopped in at the Norm's Minute Mart on Dana road in Hendersonville to get a coke. Had my M&P40 safely sleeping in a Blackhawk holster on my right side - just like I've done every day for the past 5 years whenever I leave my house. I usually open-carry in the summer around
    here because it's just too danged hot to wear something that will conceal my gun.

    Anyway, I walked in, made my way over to the cooler wall, grabbed a coke and went up to the counter and payed for it. I was on my way out the door when I heard,
    "Hey, wait a minute" from one of the Clerks behind the counter. I turned to look, and
    one of the Clerks was making her way around the counter and walking toward me.

    She said, "Is that a GUN on your hip?"

    Me: "Yes, it is".

    Clerk: "Well, you can't come in here with that thing on your hip!"

    Me: "Why not?"

    Clerk: "Well, that's against the law!"

    Me: "What law am I breaking?"

    Clerk: (with a puzzled look on her face, she thought a second and said)
    "Well, I don't know, but there's a law that says that you can't come in here wearing a gun on your hip!"

    Me: "Why not?" - "Do you have a sign on the front that says I can't?"

    Clerk: "Yes we do!"

    Me: "Where is it?"

    Clerk: (took a few seconds to scan the front windows of the store and when she realized there was no such sign, she said) "Well, we are going to get one, and we don't want you coming in here wearing a gun!"

    Me: I politely told her; "You will never see me in here again"

    I walked out and haven't been back since. I can only hope that if and when they get their "NO GUNS" sign out on the front of the store, that it gives them some kind of assurance that they will be safe. I've since talked to the Owner of the Company that supplies that particular store with their gas and he has told me that he would speak with the Owner of the store. A friend of mine also knows the Owner of the store in question and he told him about the incident. The Owner of the store was shocked to hear what had happened and said that He would take care of it.

    From that situation, I have bought myself an IWB holster and just wear my shirt over the gun. Don't get me wrong, I love to open-carry when and wherever I lawfully can, but sometimes, I just don't want to deal with the ignorance some people have towards a person's right to carry a weapon - whether it's concealed or not.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member OC-Glock19's Avatar
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    Please don't ever ask people to post no-guns signs if they confront you about open carrying. It's counterproductive.

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    I didn't ask them to post a sign, I just asked where the sign was that said I could not carry in their store - that would be the only way that I'd be breaking any "law" that the Clerk was trying to think of. After talking with the Owner of the store, I have been assured that there will be no sign put up to keep guns out of their store. Thank God for people with common sense.

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    featherbndr wrote:
    I didn't ask them to post a sign, I just asked where the sign was that said I could not carry in their store - that would be the only way that I'd be breaking any "law" that the Clerk was trying to think of. After talking with the Owner of the store, I have been assured that there will be no sign put up to keep guns out of their store. Thank God for people with common sense.
    I totally understand the question. Particularly when you are being harrassed by a clerk. My recomendation would be to focus on the fact that there is no law making OC illegal and the state constitution and the state supreme court have upheld our right to OC. I would not even bring up the sign/private property issue unless they do first. My .02. Looks like common sense will prevail though. I'm waiting for my CCP for those times when I just don't want to deal with questions too.

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    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
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    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    Please don't ever ask people to post no-guns signs if they confront you about open carrying. It's counterproductive.

    He did not ask them to post a sign, he asked them where the sign was that would have indicated that he was in the process of inducing a felony.

    If you have input, be more productive than your statement/quote. Give examples of what to say when confronted with the same situations instead of 'Don't ever ask....blah blah'

    Take your own advice and offer productive criticism: (as in)

    To the clerk: Ma'am, did you know that it is legal to open carry a firearm in public in NC? My carrying this firearm may have precluded an assault / robbery from this very store from a robber who saw me Open Carrying.

    There are many more examples of what to say when confronted OCing...this is but one.

    D




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    I'd have gone back and spoken to the manager about her attitude - and mentioned that I'd been a regular customer for that long.

    I'd also have gone back to see whether they'd actually posted a sign or not.

    Pete

    http://www.alarmandmuster.com/

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    featherbndr wrote:
    Me: "Why not?" - "Do you have a sign on the front that says I can't?"
    never mention signage - if you say it, they will come. You have invited them to post.

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    As for commenting about signs - posting a sign of "no weapons" has ZERO affect on Open carry in North Carolina.

    Signs are only legally binding for those carrying concealed on a permit - they don't even carry any weight against someone who is illegally carrying concealed...

    Because of that, as several have mentioned, bringing up signs or lack thereof when OCing only entices them to post, thereby affecting our CCing brothers.

    My $.02



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    RayBurton72 wrote:
    As for commenting about signs - posting a sign of "no weapons" has ZERO affect on Open carry in North Carolina.

    Signs are only legally binding for those carrying concealed on a permit - they don't even carry any weight against someone who is illegally carrying concealed...

    Because of that, as several have mentioned, bringing up signs or lack thereof when OCing only entices them to post, thereby affecting our CCing brothers.

    My $.02

    Ray, for some reason I have never even thought about it like that. But the only place the signs come up in the GS is the CC scope of permit. Makes sense to me! Although, if you are asked to leave it would become a trespassing issue if you refused. But if I'm asked to leave then they obviously don't need my money. More great info to keep in mind.

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    i have to disagree with what you guys are saying about talking about the signs...

    ive worked for countless minimum wage jobs and ive never seen a manager/owner get so up in arms about one non-violent incident that they spent money on a sign for their store...

    sorry, but most of those managers and owners have way to many other things to worry about than things like that... and the vast majority of them are too damn lazy as well...

    is it possible, sure... so is a total ban on firearms next week... but this falls into us worrying about things that arent gonna happen...

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    mekender wrote:
    i have to disagree with what you guys are saying about talking about the signs...

    ive worked for countless minimum wage jobs and ive never seen a manager/owner get so up in arms about one non-violent incident that they spent money on a sign for their store...

    sorry, but most of those managers and owners have way to many other things to worry about than things like that... and the vast majority of them are too damn lazy as well...

    is it possible, sure... so is a total ban on firearms next week... but this falls into us worrying about things that arent gonna happen...
    No it does not fall into this category - we have seen signs come up before for this reason, and legislation intriduced to give signs force of law - please don't do this again.

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    I talked with a Client we designed a house for about a month ago who used to own a local chain of Grocery stores. All of his stores had the infamous "NO GUNS" sign on the storefront. He told me the reason he had them on his stores was that his insurance company gave him a greatly reduced rate for having them posted. It made
    sense to me, after all, the NC Dept. of Insurance runs this State. Back to the point - The only reason I asked the Clerk about a sign was that She had told me that I was breaking the "law" - whether I'm being "counter-productive" to the cause or not, when someone accuses me of breaking the law and can't explain to me what law I'm breaking, I have an obligation to defend my actions. I guess I should have had her call the Police and had them explain it to her. In the future I won't ask anyone who confronts me about OC where the sign is because it's obviously asking them the post a sign. I'll just go over to the dark side and CC from now on.

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    featherbndr wrote:
    I talked with a Client we designed a house for about a month ago who used to own a local chain of Grocery stores. All of his stores had the infamous "NO GUNS" sign on the storefront. He told me the reason he had them on his stores was that his insurance company gave him a greatly reduced rate for having them posted. It made
    sense to me, after all, the NC Dept. of Insurance runs this State. Back to the point - The only reason I asked the Clerk about a sign was that She had told me that I was breaking the "law" - whether I'm being "counter-productive" to the cause or not, when someone accuses me of breaking the law and can't explain to me what law I'm breaking, I have an obligation to defend my actions. I guess I should have had her call the Police and had them explain it to her. In the future I won't ask anyone who confronts me about OC where the sign is because it's obviously asking them the post a sign. I'll just go over to the dark side and CC from now on.
    I don't think anyone here is suggesting you don't challenge such baseless comments - I certainly am not suggesting that - simply pointing out that bringing up a signage issue can lead to long-term setbacks for those who carry, especially since signage has no bearing on OC.

    Certainly challenge the assertion it is illegal, but, just a request i make of many, please don't ask about signage.

    i.e. "Really, and what law am I breaking?" is usually enough to get the sheeple tongue tied.

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    Why even debate with a store employee? You wont change their mind. Especially not in front of customers if there are any at the time of the incident.

    Would it not be better to simply leave and call back later to clarify with the owner what their policy is and to properly inform their employees?

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