• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

What is the law on OC while in a car?

S

SA-XD

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
15
Location
Kalamazoo, Union, Michigan, USA
imported post

So I just got my new Springfield XD .40 (love it by the way!) and its my first gun and i'm trying to learn all the laws so as to not get into trouble. I would like to open carry but I want to be sure I know what to and not to do first. First of all, I don't have a CCW/CPL so can I even have it on me in the car? do I just carry it like normal? Whats the law? Thanks in advance. and i'll be at the next picnic in Portage! See you there!



Oh, and i'm sure this has been covered before on here but I couldn't get the search button to work. so sorry if this is old news.
 
FatboyCykes

FatboyCykes

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
942
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
imported post

Welcome SAXD :D Please add your location, city and state to your profile, thanks.


Without a CPL you cannot carry a loaded pistol in your car, it must be unloaded, and in the trunk or out of reach of any unauthorized persons. Carrying, loaded, in a car w/o a CPL is a big nono.

Also, do a little bit more research regarding transport of a firearm w/o a CPL in a car, seems to be a gray area :(
 
S

SA-XD

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
15
Location
Kalamazoo, Union, Michigan, USA
imported post

Thanks for the info. i thought it was illegal but wasn't positive. So what do you do when you want to carry. Just go to your trunk and load/unload everytime you want to carry?

I guess this won't be a big deal for me for long anway. I'm getting my CPL ASAP. Just wanted to know for the meantime.
 
FatboyCykes

FatboyCykes

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
942
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
imported post

Correct, but the law regarding legal/lawful transport of a pistol is a little foggy, you'll find it under the info thread I believe, there are something like 7 listed reasons for lawful/legal transport in a vehicle. The debate is weather the 7 listed reasons are inclusive or exclusive, meaning, are they just examples of reasons to lawful carry, in addition to self protection, which is not listed, or are they the ONLY reasons that you can transport in a vehicle, of the which, again, PP is not listed.

Hope that makes sense to you.
 
S

SA-XD

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
15
Location
Kalamazoo, Union, Michigan, USA
imported post

lots of good info there!

I have a truck so no trunk but it is an extended cab. Can I keep the gun in back locked up and the magazine in say the glove box? If I can, can the mag be loaded? Or do you have to keep it unloaded until you are ready to carry?
 
A

autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
imported post

You can keep the mag and the gun together in a locked case that is not easily accessible to the driver.

The mag may be loaded but has to be out of the gun and the chamber must be empty.

I use a pelican case with two pelican locks when I am transporting in this fashion. Of course now I don't have to worry about handguns BC I have my CPL.
 
FatboyCykes

FatboyCykes

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
942
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
imported post

It is my understanding, that the gun has to be unloaded, and "unavailable" to the driver or any other passenger. Mag can be loaded, gun cannot, no mag, nothing chambered. W/a truck, I'm not sure if you could get away with just putting it behind the seat or weather you'd need a lock box or not. I know it's been discussed several times and somebody who's not as lazy as I or who has the answer off the top of their head will chime in soon to clarify on that one :D

Again, welcome, glad you're posting, keep it up and keep the questions coming, I know I haven't been much help, but there are many here much smrtr than I :p


Edit: See, I told you, thanks Auto.


PS, Which XD do you carry?
 
S

SA-XD

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
15
Location
Kalamazoo, Union, Michigan, USA
imported post

Hey Fatboy (your name sounds like i'm being mean :D), any info is good info!

AndI carry the4" service model in .40. Only have 150 rounds through it but I just got it Friday and ammo is kinda hard to find right now. No problems yet though!

I did manage to find 600 rounds at Wally Worldyesterday so I grabbed 300.
 
FatboyCykes

FatboyCykes

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
942
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
imported post

Nice, and gratz on the ammo. I'm down to about 300 rounds in my "stock" so I won't be shooting until I find some more, dang wally world, dang it to heck!

Stick around and read up the info will make your head spin in a few days time.

Def. check out wash rinse repeat if you haven't already, and when you're done reading it, read it about 187 more times.
 
C

CoonDog

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
532
Location
Farmington Hills, Michigan, USA
imported post

Autosurgeon and Fatboy: thank-you for the clarification on transport w/o a CPL. I had been transporting my pistol in the case in the trunk and the mags (loaded) separately in my range bag, also in the trunk. It will be less hassle to keep them all together.

Do either of you know if there is an MCL cite that speaks to this for confirmation?
 
A

autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
imported post

Per the MSP and the MCL is listed

[align=center][font="Arial, Helvetica"][font="Arial, Helvetica"]Concealed Weapons (Non-CPL Holders)[/font] [/font] [/align] [align=center][/align] [font="Arial, Helvetica"] 1. If I do not have a CCW permit, may I transport my pistol in a motor vehicle?[/font]
[font="Arial, Helvetica"] [font="Arial, Helvetica"]MCL 750.231a[/font] A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle.[/font]
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]A 'lawful purpose' includes:[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.[/font]
 
A

autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
imported post

autosurgeon wrote:
Per the MSP and the MCL is listed

[align=center][font="Arial, Helvetica"][font="Arial, Helvetica"]Concealed Weapons (Non-CPL Holders)[/font] [/font] [/align] [align=center][/align] [font="Arial, Helvetica"] 1. If I do not have a CCW permit, may I transport my pistol in a motor vehicle?[/font]
[font="Arial, Helvetica"] [font="Arial, Helvetica"]MCL 750.231a[/font] A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle.[/font]
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]A 'lawful purpose' includes:[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted.[/font]
  • [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.[/font]
Click to expand...
The word I highlighted in red "includes" seems to infer that there are other lawful reasons other than the ones listed BUT I am not a lawyer soooo

For instance if it said [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A 'lawful purpose' is or is defined as.... then you could infer that it is a closed ended list. But the way is worded leads me to beleive that it is actually just a sample list of some commen reasons that would be legal.

Feel free to shoot holes in my reasoning!! :lol:
[/font]
 
S

SA-XD

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
15
Location
Kalamazoo, Union, Michigan, USA
imported post

It kind of scares me that no where in that does it say something to the effect of "you may transport to or from a place you are allowed to open carry". Although that may be what you are talking about with you "included" statement. hopefully you are right about that. My best friend's mom is a lawyer. I should talk to her. I i find anything, i'll post it.
 
Z

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

SA-XD wrote:
It kind of scares me that no where in that does it say something to the effect of "you may transport to or from a place you are allowed to open carry".  Although that may be what you are talking about with you "included" statement.  hopefully you are right about that.  My best friend's mom is a lawyer.  I should talk to her.  I i find anything, i'll post it.
Click to expand...

The way the law works is that it defines what activities are ILLEGAL. everything else is legal.

In this particular instance, the legislature decided to give a non-inclusive list of activities which would be legal.

Some here have petitioned their legislators to clarify this law, to include the phrase "but not limited to" to the list, or simply remove the list altogether, as it is not within the spirit of the law to include activities which are legal.
 
DanM

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
imported post

FatboyCykes wrote:
. . . the law regarding legal/lawful transport of a pistol is a little foggy, you'll find it under the info thread I believe, there are something like 7 listed reasons for lawful/legal transport in a vehicle. The debate is weather the 7 listed reasons are inclusive or exclusive, meaning, are they just examples of reasons to lawful carry, in addition to self protection, which is not listed, or are they the ONLY reasons that you can transport in a vehicle, of the which, again, PP is not listed.
Click to expand...
Here's the deal if you are properly transporting a handgun and you do not have a CPL:

If you are stopped by the police, limit your conversation to the reason why the officer stopped you. Ask immediately, "Good day, officer, why did you stop me?" If you are asked if you know why you were stopped, answer "No. Why did you stop me?" Do not answer questions about whether or not you have weapons in the car (make sureyour weapons areout of sight, but properly stored of course). You can say, "I do not wish to discuss the contents of my vehicle." If you are asked where you are coming from or going to, say "I do not wish to discuss my itinerary, officer." As always, NEVER consent to a search (of yourself, your belongings, or your vehicle) and BE VOCAL about it. Do not ever say one thing about the contents of yourvehicle or theitinerary you are followingto anyone, until you have talked to an attorney, if it ever gets that far.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top