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Thread: Exposed Loaded Carry License

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    So if i get a exposed firearms license from the D.O.J



    does that allow me to loaded open carry?



    Do i still have to unload and lock my weapon when driving within 100 feet of a school?



    can anyone answer these or have any questions of their own?

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    eraseallhope wrote:
    So if i get a exposed firearms license from the D.O.J.,does that allow me to loaded open carry? No, DOJ doesn't issue the license, the Sheriff issues the license. Andthe exposed carry license is only issued inCounties that have a population under 200,000 as of the last census. And it is only good in the County in which itis issued.

    Do i still have to unload and lock my weapon when driving within 100 feet of a school? It's 1,000 feet of school property, not 100 feet from a school, and no you would not have to unload and lock, you would have a license.


    can anyone answer these or have any questions of their own?

    Hope that helps.

    Here is the Penal Code:

    12050. (a) (1) (A) The sheriff of a county, upon proof that the person applying is of good moral character, that good cause exists for the issuance, and that the person applying satisfies any one of the conditions specified in subparagraph (D) and has completed a course of training as described in subparagraph (E), may issue to that person a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in either one of the following formats:
    (i) A license to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
    (ii) Where the population of the county is less than 200,000 persons according to the most recent federal decennial census, a license to carry loaded and exposed in that county a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person...


    And good luck trying to get a license to carry loaded and exposed, I haveheard of not even one single licenseever being issued in CA.



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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    eraseallhope wrote:
    So if i get a exposed firearms license from the D.O.J



    does that allow me to loaded open carry?



    Do i still have to unload and lock my weapon when driving within 100 feet of a school?



    can anyone answer these or have any questions of their own?
    I don't have any facts to back it up, but the 'word' at calguns.net is that there are no known instances of those licenses being issued.

    However, if you were issued one it is a valid exemption for loaded carry as well as carry in a school zone. (fyi it's 1000 ft not 100)

    Keep in mind that a "license to carry loaded and exposed" is only valid in the county of issuance. (12050. (a) (1) (A) (ii))

    --------------

    626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
    Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
    (b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
    knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
    paragraph (1) of subdivision (e)

    (l) This section does not apply to ...a person holding a valid license to carry the
    firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of
    Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4 ...

    --------------


    12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
    he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
    vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
    incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
    prohibited area of unincorporated territory.


    (b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following:

    ...

    (6) [12050 License Holders]



    --------------

    12050. (a) (1) (A) (ii)... alicense to carry loaded and exposed in that county a pistol,
    revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Uhh... well i kind of have a license from the BSIS (California Bureau of Security and Investigative Services)



    not The D.OJ. im sorry... and i missed a 0 on my 1000 f.t i knew that sorry...



    But on my license, it says right on the front, Permit for Exposed Firearm



    i got it so i could try and get a position as a security officer with a firearm.

    So i was wondering if i was able to loaded open carry with my license.

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    eraseallhope wrote:
    Uhh... well i kind of have a license from the BSIS (California Bureau of Security and Investigative Services)

    But on my license, it says right on the front, Permit for Exposed Firearm


    i got it so i could try and get a position as a security officer with a firearm.

    So i was wondering if i was able to loaded open carry with my license.
    Somewhere burried in PC 12031 there is likely an exemption for you - but I'll lay odds it is only an exemption 'while in the performance of duties via a licensed firm' or something along those lines.

    Read 12031 Subdivisiond carefully

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    eraseallhope wrote:
    So i was wondering if i was able to loaded open carry with my license.
    Only while in uniform and on duty working for your employer, or going directly to or from your place of work to your home.

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    Old Timer wrote:
    eraseallhope wrote:
    So i was wondering if i was able to loaded open carry with my license.
    Only while in uniform and on duty working for your employer, or going directly to or from your place of work to your home.
    Extra emphasis on DIRECTLY to/from work. Don't even stop to gas up your car or go through the drive-thru for dinner.
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    so does the directly to and from home/work also mean i have to have my uniform on during that drive?



    or am i aloud to drive while loaded open carry with my white under shirt on, because my company does have a policy of not wearing your uniform unless you are on the clock and being paid for the time your wearing it.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Pretty sure you have to be uniformed to be legally armed, even to/from work. CA_Libertarian probably knows for sure.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    In California, the only documentation that would allow one to carry a firearm exposed is a license to carry under 12050. Concealed would be good to go statewide or any other State where licensees have been exempted in spite of the lack of California's reciprocity. There are no statutoryrequirements to carry concealed, but a issuing authoritymay impose restrictions.Loaded and exposed licenses can only be issued in counties where the population is 200,000 or fewer and is only valid in the county where it is issued. Because even rural issuing authorities are frightened or ignorant, there are no such L and E licenses issued.. at all.. anywhere...

    The permit issued for carrying an exposed firearm is exclusively for the purposes of employment at a security guard or other related field governed by the State of California Department of Consumer Affairs. Carrying or using your firearm outside the terms of your employment will jeopardize that permit. Its not a clever loophole that makes it possible for one to carry exposed anytime they want.

    If you are lawfully carrying LOC or UOC you do not want to present that to responding police officers- you shouldnt even have it with you if you arent working in my opinion.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

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    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Regular Member leitung's Avatar
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    I have the exposed firearm permit from BSIS, as I work as a uniformed security guard, let me be clear on a few things, as I know the law pretty well.

    To carry an exposed firearm, you must meet the following conditions:

    1) You must be in a BSIS approved uniform, this is defined as a uniform that has 2 patches on each shoulder, indicating the name of thecompany you work for, and the words "Private Security". You must also have a name tag visable on the front, and a badge. A unique identification number must also be present on the front of your person. None of these items can be concealed at anytime.

    Cited:

    7582.27. (a) Any person referred to in subdivision (i) of Section
    7582.26 who uses or wears a baton or exposed firearm as authorized
    pursuant to this chapter shall wear a patch on each arm that reads
    "private security" and that includes the name of the company by which
    the person is employed or for which the person is a representative.
    The patch shall be clearly visible at all times. The patches of a
    private patrol operator licensee, or his or her employees or
    representatives shall be of a standard design approved by the
    director.
    (b) The director may assess a fine of two hundred fifty dollars
    ($250) per violation of subdivision (a).

    7582.28. (a) Any badge or cap insignia worn by a person who is a
    licensee, officer, director, partner, manager, or employee of a
    licensee shall be of a design approved by the director, and shall
    bear on its face a distinctive word indicating the name of the
    licensee and an employee number by which the person may be identified
    by the licensee.
    The provisions of this section shall not be construed to authorize
    persons to wear badges who are prohibited by Section 7582.26 from
    wearing badges.
    (b) The director may assess a fine of two hundred fifty dollars
    ($250) per violation of subdivision (a).
    7582.26.(f) No private patrol licensee or officer, director, partner,
    manager, or employee of a private patrol licensee shall use or wear a
    badge, except while engaged in guard or patrol work and while
    wearing a distinctive uniform. A private patrol licensee or officer,
    director, partner, manager, or employee of a private patrol licensee
    wearing a distinctive uniform shall wear a patch on each shoulder of
    his or her uniform that reads "private security" and that includes
    the name of the private patrol company by which the person is
    employed or for which the person is a representative and a badge or
    cloth patch on the upper left breast of the uniform. All patches and
    badges worn on a distinctive uniform shall be of a standard design
    approved by the director and shall be clearly visible.
    The director may assess a fine of two hundred fifty dollars ($250)
    per violation of this subdivision.

    (I swear companies are cheap bastards, they skimp on nametages, ID numbers, and badges. Keep yourself legal, get a nametag with your number and name on it, and insist that your patches are up to spec, it only takes one encounter with BSIS to end it for you, oh, and don't expect that just because the local LEOs dont say anything that your legal, most LEOs dont know a thing about it, but please dont bank on this, you may someday run into a know-it-all LEO who will be happy to turn you into BSIS)

    2) You must be on duty, or directly to and from your workplace in that uniform. Directly to and from means no stopping for gas, food, e.t.c.


    Cited:


    P.C. 12031

    (d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following:

    (3) Private investigators and private patrol operators who are
    licensed pursuant to Chapter 11.5 (commencing with Section 7512) of,
    and alarm company operators who are licensed pursuant to Chapter 11.6
    (commencing with Section 7590) of, Division 3 of the Business and
    Professions Code, while acting within the course and scope of their
    employment.
    (4) Uniformed security guards or night watch persons employed by
    any public agency, while acting within the scope and course of their
    employment.
    (5) Uniformed security guards, regularly employed and compensated
    in that capacity by persons engaged in any lawful business, and
    uniformed alarm agents employed by an alarm company operator, while
    actually engaged in protecting and preserving the property of their
    employers or on duty or en route to or from their residences or their
    places of employment, and security guards and alarm agents en route
    to or from their residences or employer-required range training.
    Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to prohibit cities and
    counties from enacting ordinances requiring alarm agents to register
    their names.
    (6) Uniformed employees of private patrol operators and private
    investigators licensed pursuant to Chapter 11.5 (commencing with
    Section 7512) of Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code,
    while acting within the course and scope of their employment.
    (I know MANY guards whostretch this, and even have LEO encounters with no hassle, but if you are caught by a BSIS offical, expect your permits, and possibly your freedoms to be taken away.)

    3) You must have a valid guard card and exposed firearms permit.

    4) Your firearm must remain EXPOSED at all times, even while on duty. Covering it up is a major no-no without a CCW.

    (I know for a fact that all LEOs know this law, infact I used to work with a guard who got busted for covering his gun with a coat. I was even told by a Sac PD officer one time to pull my coat up, it was partially covering my gun on accident)

    5) Your firearm must be in a belt holster.. no chest rigs for you.

    If you are not following allof those requirements, you are not legal.. Period.

    If you have any further questions, you can visit my site at http://www.casecurityofficer.org/ or e-mail me at cadetprovince@sbcglobal.net I will be happy to answer your questions about BSIS permits.






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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    ConditionThree wrote:
    If you are lawfully carrying LOC or UOC you do not want to present that to responding police officers- you shouldnt even have it with you if you arent working in my opinion.
    I don't understand what you mean by this.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    marshaul wrote:
    ConditionThree wrote:
    If you are lawfully carrying LOC or UOC you do not want to present that to responding police officers- you shouldnt even have it with you if you arent working in my opinion.
    I don't understand what you mean by this.
    Let's say you are an OC activist who is employed as a security guard with this BSIS card. You're out on your day off and you are detained by city police after a MWAG report. They ask for ID and this permit is either presented or seized during the contact. It is possible for police to construe the possession or presentation of this permit as some kind of misuse of the permit. Its possible that it could be revoked based on your conduct carrying a firearm outside of work even if you didnt intend to use the permit in that manner.

    So if you have a BSIS permit to carry exposed and you want to OC while not working- leave it at home.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Oh, you meant the permit not the gun. Makes sense now. You're 100% right.

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    eraseallhope wrote:
    so does the directly to and from home/work also mean i have to have my uniform on during that drive?

    or am i aloud to drive while loaded open carry with my white under shirt on, because my company does have a policy of not wearing your uniform unless you are on the clock and being paid for the time your wearing it.
    I think Leitung covered everything pretty well. It seems there's some new requirements on uniforms since I last did security work (or just never heard of the requirements in the first place).

    In any case, the simple answer is ONLY when in uniform, and ONLY when going directly to/from place of employment.

    I never had a company tell me not to wear the uniform on the way to work... kinda rediculous unless they offer a locker room on site for you to change in. (And it's a violation of labor law to require you to change in a bathroom, FYI.)

    In any case, I almost always kept my pistol locked in the trunk when going to/from the office. I would retrieve it from the trunk, holster it, then walk into the office to get the keys for the patrol vehicle. This way, I could always choose to stop if I wanted to.
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  17. #17
    Regular Member leitung's Avatar
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    I forgot to mention this:
    PC 12031
    " (6) Uniformed employees of private patrol operators and private
    investigators licensed pursuant to Chapter 11.5 (commencing with
    Section 7512) of Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code,
    while acting within the course and scope of their employment."
    This means, while on duty, if your employer requires you to fill up the gas tank, meet with a prospective client, e.t.c. That is acting within the course and scope of your employment, meaning you can carry your firearm.
    My former company interpereted this as our required breaks/lunches, as long as it's within the scope of your employment, meaning like a drive thru, or 7-Eleven, as long as you are still on the clock and your employer knows your location, and you are returning to work shortly afterwards. (We were lucky enough to have a contract with a 7-Eleven, so it was no big deal) This however, does not mean your stop at the bank, or the grocery store to do personal errands, like I have seen some guards doing when you have some down time at work.

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