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Thread: Take The Challenge

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    uh... people are not very smart.

    Crooks cost people more. The debt in CC theft is in the billions if not trillions. Not only is there the CC theft but the person's identify which also costs consumers money. The Russians are probably the worst offender, if not China, in credit card fraud.

    This is a brief on how banks work on fraud

    Scammer steals money.
    Customer sad, reports theft.
    Bank returns credit to the persons account, does nothing to apprehend the criminal.
    Customer happy.
    Done.

    Trying to investigate or find the criminal of the theft costs more money than to let the money go.

    I've personally had my credit card number stolen and used for a world trip, of which the person did take the trip before the chargeback/fraud report completed. Some Arsehole took a world trip on Emirates airlines, yes the one from Arab country, to other places. France to Arab, Arab to India, India to China, China to Arab, Arab to France. Of course the person would get on in Arab country and do what dirty stuff he needed to do. Makes you wonder if the person wasn't part of the terrorist group which attacked India a while back.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    uh... people are not very smart.

    Crooks cost people more. The debt in CC theft is in the billions if not trillions. Not only is there the CC theft but the person's identify which also costs consumers money. The Russians are probably the worst offender, if not China, in credit card fraud.

    This is a brief on how banks work on fraud

    Scammer steals money.
    Customer sad, reports theft.
    Bank returns credit to the persons account, does nothing to apprehend the criminal.
    Customer happy.
    Done.

    Trying to investigate or find the criminal of the theft costs more money than to let the money go.

    I've personally had my credit card number stolen and used for a world trip, of which the person did take the trip before the chargeback/fraud report completed. Some Arsehole took a world trip on Emirates airlines, yes the one from Arab country, to other places. France to Arab, Arab to India, India to China, China to Arab, Arab to France. Of course the person would get on in Arab country and do what dirty stuff he needed to do. Makes you wonder if the person wasn't part of the terrorist group which attacked India a while back.
    You ever been robbed or scammed? In my entire life, I've personally lost under 250 bucks to theft. I know I've paid a lot more in taxes to support the police... hence, the police cost me more. It is the same with a majority of people.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Even though the bank issued credit back, the money was taken from the bank's insurance or set as a loss to the bank.

    Don't you see criminals are the ones sucking the life out of our economy along with the people who mismanage their money? :/

    Cops are paid, when people by taxes, directly by the people.
    Criminals take away from our economy, hurting everyone.

    I should note some cops are paid directly by the state, depending where you live. Some places don't even have a local PD and leave such work to state troopers.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    Even though the bank issued credit back, the money was taken from the bank's insurance or set as a loss to the bank.

    Don't you see criminals are the ones sucking the life out of our economy along with the people who mismanage their money? :/

    Cops are paid, when people by taxes, directly by the people.
    Criminals take away from our economy, hurting everyone.

    I should note some cops are paid directly by the state, depending where you live. Some places don't even have a local PD and leave such work to state troopers.
    If by criminals, you mean the Obama Administration and most of Congress.... then yes, I see your point.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    ...

    I'd love to hear your view of how the USA should be set up.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    I'm going to have to side with Captain ATF on this one.

    Just because you aren't incurring a direct cost from criminals, doesn't mean you haven't suffered massive secondary or tertiary effects.

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    Everytime you spend money, criminals are costing you. Whenever a dirtbag shoplifts, that store loses the money they spent on that item as well as the potential realized income/profit.

    They make that up by increasing their markups. Every retailer's markup percentages includes a statistical percentage to cover shrinkage/loss.

    So, everytime you buy that cup of coffee, that soda, that TV, etc...a portion of what you are paying is to pay for that TV the shoplifter took, the bad checks they get, the frivolous lawsuits..etc.. One doesn't go into business to give things away for free. They get those losses back through paying customers.

    So, crooked people COST Americans more than the cops do everyday because, over the course of a year, you spend far more in business than you do in the fraction of your taxes that go toward LE.

    You don't have to be victimized directly by a criminal to be a victim of crime.

    Besides, if there were no crime, then it could be argued there would be no need for cops, right? So, even the cost of cops can be traced back to the cost of criminal/crime.


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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    ...

    I'd love to hear your view of how the USA should be set up.
    Where are cops mentioned in any of the documents that "set up" the United States?

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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    This is a brief on how banks work on fraud

    Scammer steals money.
    Customer sad, reports theft.
    Bank returns credit to the persons account, does nothing to apprehend the criminal.
    Customer happy.
    Done.

    Trying to investigate or find the criminal of the theft costs more money than to let the money go.
    But didn't we pay the cops to do the investigating?

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    smoking,

    Nope, the buck is passed to the consumer as a loss to the bank/or insurance. There is zero investigating done in such incidents. There are only reports of the theft.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    They didn't include the option: 'LAWYERS' who increase the cost of doing business by making many industries take uneccesary steps to avoid lawsuits. Or insurance companies, who payout frivolous lawsuits instead of fighting them.

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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    smoking,

    Nope, the buck is passed to the consumer as a loss to the bank/or insurance. There is zero investigating done in such incidents. There are only reports of the theft.
    So, if the cops took your money on a promise to catch bad guys, and if the cops failed to live up to that promise by running off and chasing speeders and drug users, haven't they also stolen your money?

    The one thing we pay them to do, and they go off and do something else. If you pay a guy to mow your lawn, how happy would you be if was doing roofing, down the block?

    The question is meant to be simple. Those on the cop side immediately get very inventive in their accounting and never very precise in their ledgers.

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    WheelGun wrote:
    They didn't include the option: 'LAWYERS' who increase the cost of doing business by making many industries take uneccesary steps to avoid lawsuits. Or insurance companies, who payout frivolous lawsuits instead of fighting them.

    Amen to that one! +1

    I definitely see crooks and lawyers being FAR more costly to the American people than any police officer or department.

    Besides, I question pretty much any poll or survey, as the results are too easy to spin even when conducted by so called unbaiased 3rd parties. But, specifically, when that poll is conducted by a biased party, any results are questionable at best.

    With even primative computer/internet skills, one can create such a poll to show anything. Give me 10 miinutes and even with my rudementary skills, I could produce and post a poll reflecting a vast majority of people still think the earth is flat. :quirky

    Besides, isn't anti-cop stuff against the rules here anyway?


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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    If by criminals, you mean the Obama Administration and most of Congress.... then yes, I see your point.
    This is precisely why I voted Crooks. IMO, federal spending and taxes = theft.

    Add: I guess I must be a terrrr-ro-rist.


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    "Take the Sweeney Challenge. Who has cost you more, the cops or the crooks?"

    I am not really sure what this poll is about. Cops meaning "pay" and criminals meaning what they steal?

    Criminals steal from businesses daily. That cost is passed onto the consumers to recover the loss. They also steal from citizens daily and insurance companies pay off on the loss. The insurance company then raises premiums to pass that loss onto the customers.

    Banks who are presented with fake checks recover the loss from the customer that presented it. If the customer cannot pay it back... the bank raises loan interest rates or lowers dividend rates and pass the lossto customers.

    Cops are paid to do far more than just investigate financial crimes and thefts. Sure, there are many cops but if they all become detectives there will be nobody to handle the calls for service. So a small group of cops are set aside to handle investigations.

    Unfortunately, not all crimes are investigated. If you have50 people that have had something cheap stolen out of their car or5 people that have had $10,000 stolen in valuables stolenfrom their home.... and you only have 10 detectives to work full time on these cases.... what crimes do you suspect will be given top priority?

    So you have the cost to find the criminal vs the hours of pay required to do it. Sure, we want all criminals punished for doing us wrong. But realistically... it is not cost effective.


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    Um, if there were no criminals we wouldn't need any cops so actually any tax costs for LEO are because of the criminals. Most of our rights infringements have come in response to violent criminal behavior by a small portion of the population. The BATFE and FBI were created in response to criminals as were the infringement acts of 1934, 1968 and 1986.

    The criminals have cost every law abiding American FAR more than LEOs both financially and in infringements of constitutional rights.

    The people to be upset with in 98% of cases, are criminals, state legislators and their aides and federal congress critters and their aides, but I repeat myself.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Cops134 (69%)
    Crooks28 (14%)
    It's about even33 (17%)

    I wonder if CLEO even expressed his opinion there or just lectured us.

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    I go back to my comments that this poll, like any, should be questionable at best, particularly when the poll is presented by someone so biased.

    Take into consideration that the majority of responses here in forum are in favor of the Crooks choice..yet the poll shows a vast difference.

    Consider the poll already had well over 100 responseswhen it was presnted. So, whocast those 100 or so votes before the poll went up? How do we know the biased creator didn't skew the results?

    The last thing to consider is the fact that, since this so called poll went up, it appears that the "cops" choice is loosing ground. It was over 70% yesterday.

    Just one of those hmmm, makes ya wonder moments.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Cops134 (69%)
    Crooks28 (14%)
    It's about even33 (17%)

    I wonder if CLEO even expressed his opinion there or just lectured us.
    As I said, the pro-cop folks have to get very inventive in their accounting, looking to price fourth- and fifth-order derivative expenditures, then throwing all those expenditures on the same side of the ledger. This is accounting that Enron would envy.

    Everyone else just looks at the question honestly.

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