• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

OC Situations

IA-Pro

IA-Pro

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
105
Location
Covington, Louisiana, USA
imported post

Alright fellas, here is what’s on my mind. Some of you know I’m planning on coming to the meetup in July, and I’ll be OCing for the first time in public. That kind of had me thinking about the different kind of situations I could find myself in while OCing. I’ve been trained on & carried a side arm in the military (years ago), but this of course is completely different.

I guess my main concern is this – say I’m out in public with or without my family and some bad guy decides to rob the store I’m in or a person that’s close by to me with a gun/knife/bat (does it matter?). If I’m not being directly threatened, do I act? Does the person being threatened have to be in fear of his life for me to act? If something bad happens because I didn’t act, could I be charged with something? Are these subjects covered in – dare I say – CCW classes?

I said this before in a previous post, but please excuse my noobness if this kind of thing has been discussed before… ;)
 
M

mark edward marchiafava

Banned
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
2,269
Location
baton rouge, Louisiana, USA
imported post

If you feel someone else's life is in grave or serious danger of great bodily harm or death, yes, you CAN raise that as a defense, should some overzealous "law enforcement officer, DA or grand jury attempt to prosecute you.
IANAL, so check this out from as many sources as you wish.

As for not acting, well, there's no law requiring "law enforcement officers" to protect anyone, according to numerous court decisions. I don't see how us lowly non-sovereign citizens can be held to a higher standard, considering how they are so much smarter than us.
 
C

CaptainDan

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
197
Location
Marrero, Louisiana, USA
imported post

IA-Pro wrote:
Alright fellas, here is what’s on my mind. Some of you know I’m planning on coming to the meetup in July, and I’ll be OCing for the first time in public. That kind of had me thinking about the different kind of situations I could find myself in while OCing. I’ve been trained on & carried a side arm in the military (years ago), but this of course is completely different.

I guess my main concern is this – say I’m out in public with or without my family and some bad guy decides to rob the store I’m in or a person that’s close by to me with a gun/knife/bat (does it matter?). If I’m not being directly threatened, do I act? Does the person being threatened have to be in fear of his life for me to act? If something bad happens because I didn’t act, could I be charged with something? Are these subjects covered in – dare I say – CCW classes?

I said this before in a previous post, but please excuse my noobness if this kind of thing has been discussed before… ;)
Click to expand...

Yes you are protected under the law if you use deadly force to stop someone from injury or harm to another(the law is on this site in several different places, the heading is "USE OF DEADLY FORCE" I believe) I am on the boat offshore now but I have the laws printed up at home.

Take for example the elderly man that shot and killedan attacker violently beating an officer in Baton Rouge. The man was not prosecuted by the law, the family is trying to sue him, which will never fly. It has been going on for 6 years I believe (the civil suit) But he is in no trouble legally. The civil suit is a joke and will never go anywhere.
 
A

Anty506

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
59
Location
, ,
imported post

IA-Pro,

I have been in covington everyday, so send me a PM if you would like to have lunch.
 
N

nolacopusmc

Banned
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
305
Location
, ,
imported post

IA-Pro wrote:
Alright fellas, here is what’s on my mind. Some of you know I’m planning on coming to the meetup in July, and I’ll be OCing for the first time in public. That kind of had me thinking about the different kind of situations I could find myself in while OCing. I’ve been trained on & carried a side arm in the military (years ago), but this of course is completely different.

I guess my main concern is this – say I’m out in public with or without my family and some bad guy decides to rob the store I’m in or a person that’s close by to me with a gun/knife/bat (does it matter?). If I’m not being directly threatened, do I act? Does the person being threatened have to be in fear of his life for me to act? If something bad happens because I didn’t act, could I be charged with something? Are these subjects covered in – dare I say – CCW classes?

I said this before in a previous post, but please excuse my noobness if this kind of thing has been discussed before… ;)
Click to expand...
Even though you plan to OC, that is the kind of information that you would receive in a good CHP class. The answer is not simple. Generally, you can use the same degree of force in defense of others that the person would be authorized in using themselves if able.

The question in these types of situations is not what CAN you do, but what SHOULD you do.

This is a core subject in my CHP class. Just because you can do something, does not always mean it is the best course of action for a multitude of reasons.
 
XD-GEM

XD-GEM

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
722
Location
New Orleans, Louisiana, USA
imported post

http://www.lsp.org/pdf/chRuleBook08.pdf

The link above is to the Louisiana State Police handbook that they publish with regard to concealed carry. However, the laws about justifyable use of force are listed and quoted there for anyone to read.

Decideing whether or not you should get involved in something, even when it could be justifyably legal, is tricky ; and you'll have to decide on your own when the situation arises. It is difficult even for LEO with many years on the job. There's a former LEO who is now an attorney (I cannot remember his name); while he was off duty, he came upon a scene of a robbery in progress. He misread what was happenng and shot the busness owner instead of the robbers.

Although he was exonerated, he will have to live with that mistake for the rest of his life. I am not certain if there was ever any civil case resolution about this.
 
S

smoking357

Banned
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
1,100
Location
Pierce is a Coward, ,
imported post

mark edward marchiafava wrote:
If you feel someone else's life is in grave or serious danger of great bodily harm or death, yes, you CAN raise that as a defense, should some overzealous "law enforcement officer, DA or grand jury attempt to prosecute you.
IANAL, so check this out from as many sources as you wish.

As for not acting, well, there's no law requiring "law enforcement officers" to protect anyone, according to numerous court decisions. I don't see how us lowly non-sovereign citizens can be held to a higher standard, considering how they are so much smarter than us.
Click to expand...
No duty to act, also no immunity from civil suit.
 
N

nolacopusmc

Banned
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
305
Location
, ,
imported post

CaptainDan wrote:
True , however civil suit doesn't allways mean civil victory.

Case in point, the Baton Rouge incident. Going for 6 years and still no judgement.
Click to expand...

True. I would be very leary of interceding on behalf of a third party unless it was a loved one because you never know the full story even though the situation may seem obvious. There have been cases of the good Samaritan shooting "the victim" as they were defending themselves against the initial perpetrator.
 
N

nolacopusmc

Banned
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
305
Location
, ,
imported post

charlie12 wrote:
What about the immunity from civil liability law?
Click to expand...

Highly unlikely. Lso, jusy because a judgement may not be awarded, you still have the ahassle of the trial.
 
S

smoking357

Banned
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
1,100
Location
Pierce is a Coward, ,
imported post

CaptainDan wrote:
True , however civil suit doesn't allways mean civil victory.

Case in point, the Baton Rouge incident. Going for 6 years and still no judgement.
Click to expand...
Six years of legal bills will easily exceed $100,000.

How do you define "winning?"
 
C

CaptainDan

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
197
Location
Marrero, Louisiana, USA
imported post

Unlike a legal charge in a civil siut the one suing has to pay all court costs, not the one being sued, if you lose court costs are added to the judgement. If the judge doesn't find for the plaintiff it costs the defendant nothing. It is expensive to take someone to court but free to be taken to court. unless you lose :celebrate

BTW- First hand experience, not a guess.
 
N

nolacopusmc

Banned
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
305
Location
, ,
imported post

smoking357 wrote:
CaptainDan wrote:
True , however civil suit doesn't allways mean civil victory.

Case in point, the Baton Rouge incident. Going for 6 years and still no judgement.
Click to expand...
Six years of legal bills will easily exceed $100,000.

How do you define "winning?"
Click to expand...

I actually agree with crackhead on this one. While you may win in the end, you still go through the ordeal. I would be real leary of interceding in a private capacity for a third party. Too much could go wrong where you are left holding the bag.
 
turbodog

turbodog

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
566
Location
Independence, Louisiana, USA
imported post

Was talking about this very topic with my nephew the other day, while eating in a McDonalds.

If a BG came in right then to rob the place, I'd likely let him do it, especially if I was in such a position as to not have a clear line of fire in front or behind BG.
I don't figure to get into a gunfight over some big corporations chump change.

But, if it looked like BG intends to start, or does start, harming folks or to rob me and mine, then it's time to act.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top