South Haven ordinences that need to be updated.

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It would seem to me that's another unenforceable ordinance. The park is public property.

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There is a history of this type of crap in South Haven... I think the 1A issue needs to be pushed too... At the last council meeting there was a business owner who said the parks need to be signed as off limits to public speaking... :banghead:

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Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that this would include the ordinance that south haven has restricting freedom of speech.


STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT)
CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963

§ 5 Freedom of speech and of press.
Sec. 5.
Every person may freely speak, write, express and publish his views on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of such right; and no law shall be enacted to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of the press.

History: Const. 1963, Art. I, § 5, Eff. Jan. 1, 1964
Former Constitution: See Const. 1908, Art. II, § 4.

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You are correct!! Sadly there are many of these on the books in MI so it is apparent that the city attorneys are not doing a good job checking the new ordinances against the state and federal constitution!!

I know that the SH ordinance is not new it has been on the books for some time .. but that is no excuse as there is supposed to be a regular review of ordinances!

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Personally, I wouldn't even concern myself with their illegal laws restricting speech. They can't enforce it.

I think we really do need to have something down there. A OC picnic, along with a guest speaker. The double whammy!

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I agree however due to personal reasons related to small town politics I have to abstain from organizing it. Venator and Cabman1 know the reason why. So if there is someone else in the area who would like to take this on I will support IE bring supplies and show up.

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Yup - here are the some from Royal Oak:

§278-5. Harassing communications. A person commits the offense of harassing communications if, with intent to harass or alarm another person, he or she communicates with a person, anonymously or otherwise, by telephone, or by telegraph, mail or any other form of written or electronic communications, in a manner likely to harass or cause alarm.

§278-6. Harassment. A person commits the offense of harassment if, with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person, he or she:
A. Strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise touches a person or subjects him or her to physical contact;
B. Follows a person in or about a public place or places; or
C. Engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts that alarm or seriously annoy another person and that serve no legitimate purpose.

§278-21. Disrupting school classes. A person commits the offense of disrupting school classes if, by his or her acts, words, conduct or mere presence, he or she unlawfully diverts or unlawfully tends to divert the attention of pupils, teachers or other persons from the normal instructional program of a public or private school.

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I'm all for a picnic there, can somebody more local take the lead? I will support in any way I can. River Front Park looks nice. Some parking and you can fish along the river.

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I'm doing the same in Kalamazoo County...

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55488&highlight=jmlefler

Carry on

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Current info is SH is sending a letter to Tanya Shuitmaker our state rep asking her what the state expects of them in this matter.

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Received this today from SH. Seems they are trying for a stall. Theletter they are sending is below.:

Mr. Jeffs,

Attached is a request to the Representative Schuitmaker’s office, on behalf of the City of South Haven, to have our existing (and proposed) ordinance reviewed by the Michigan Attorney General’s office. At this point, we’re seeking outside assistance with understanding what the State of Michigan’s expectations are for enforcement of the laws. Please know that I will happily answer any questions you, or your group, may have regarding this issue.

Thank you for your time and attention.

Brian Dissette

I REPLIED WITH THIS:

I believe the Michigan Court of Appeals and state law trumps any AG opinion. I feel that you are stalling, and costing the citizens of Michigan money, as every municipality that we have communicated with has agreed with and abides with the Michigan Court of Appeals decision and state law. Since the current Attorney General is running for Governor and an opinion takes from 6 to 12 moths, I feel that you are only stalling a forgone conclusion. The wording of the statute is clear, a local unit of government can not enact or enforce any firearm law more restrictive than the state.

You also have a rule in your park ordinance about no public speaking which I believe is in violation of both the US and State constitutions. It would seem that the City of South Haven is violating personal freedoms everywhere.

I feel your action is a disservice to the citizens of both South Haven and of Michigan.

Sincerely,
Brian Jeffs

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Keep up the pressure!!

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Great letter Brian! Nicely done.

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Venator wrote:

I'm all for a picnic there, can somebody more local take the lead? I will support in any way I can. River Front Park looks nice. Some parking and you can fish along the river.

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Really, lets do a picnic there. Early October would be great. If we can get 20 people or so I can contact the newspaper about the illegal gun ordinance and the freedom of speech ban.

We will have guns in the Park and I'll give a 2A March talk.

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Guys, this is a very important one. Not only are they telling you that they don't want you to protect yourself in the parks, they don't even want you to speak publicly!

Isn't there anyone close to South Haven that can take the lead? If not just PM me the name of a good location and I'll do it.

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"Who Dat" from MGO lives there, but he doesn't like the whole "in your face" approach.

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dougwg wrote:

"Who Dat" from MGO lives there, but he doesn't like the whole "in your face" approach.

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We are trying the gentle approach until we have to get in your face. You know how it works.

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Okay we need a picnic in South Haven. The City attorney is saying they can control firearms. The city sought out the advice of another attorney and he said they can't. So the city is seeking a AG opinion, which will take over a year to get if that soon.

Sowho in the area wants to organize a picnic? I can do some of the heavy lifting, but it's nice to have some local help.

How many would be interested in attending?

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For this I would be willing to go over there. I have offered to put it together if someone from the area would just give me some park information. I haven't heard anything from anyone about it. My offer still stands. Let me know what I can do to help.

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Generaldet wrote:

For this I would be willing to go over there. I have offered to put it together if someone from the area would just give me some park information. I haven't heard anything  from anyone about it. My offer still stands. Let me know what I can do to help.

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If the timing is right, I may be able to go there as well.

I can't organize it, but I may be able to attend.

-Zig