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Thread: Hit with fist size rock, reasonable to draw?

  1. #1
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    What happened in a nut shell was, I walked out of a store and was struck by a fist size rock that then bounced of my collar bone and shattered the window of the door I had just come through.

    There was an argument over a parking spot going on and the disgrunteled driver had picked up this rock and thrown it at the other driver, missed him, and the rock hit me.

    I went to one knee, and drew. My thinking being this "I have just been shot, two shots fired one is in my shoulder and the other struck the window behind me" Clerks in the store are yelling "gun fire get down", from the impact of the rock and window.

    The passenger yelled "Oh F... You hit that cop, effe! he got his gun!" The driver dove back in the car, and peeled out backwards. I wasn't able to get a plate.

    I wasn't dressed as a cop, but at dusk, and responding like that I can understand that part.

    My shoulder is sporting a nice bruise, arm was numb and tingly for a while. Cops showed up. "No Plate can't do a thing. as they are long gone"

    I was told by the first cop I had over reacted, that I had put other people at risk.
    Second cop on the scene told me I had been more then justified, and that had it been him he would a held um.

    I had no idea it was a rock til after the car was peeling out. I knew I couldn't look at the shoulder cause if it was a bloody mess it would only induce panic. And I knew I had lost all feeling and control of it, which added to the "I've been shot idea" And I knew I had to find the source of the attack. It was completely unexpected I had absolutely no prior warning before the impact. The rock is at least baseball sized.

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    Justified IMHO.

    Being caught by surprise with a susbtantial blow to your shoulder followed by the shattering of a window behind you, it is a logical presumption that gunfire was the cause, and an equal force response would be warranted.

    Pausing to assess the situation after the draw rather than firing blindly at the first thing you see will probably be your saving grace should charges be forthcoming (which, IMHO they should NOT be).

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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Justified. By what you wrote, you demonstrated that at the moment you were hit you believed you had been shot. You reasonably believed your life was in danger. Justified.

    Charles

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    Normally I am the driver or co-conductor of the unjustified train to stir things up around here , but if I were in your shoes I would have done the exact same thing. I don't see anything remotely wrong with what you did. I think the cop who was telling you that it was wrong to draw was talking out of his butt and probably believes that only the po-po should carry.

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Considering the way you describe the incident I would have drawn as well.After a good sit rep was aquired you did the the right thing.If I were to by blindsided like that yeh I would draw but never fired .You assesed the threat correctly.

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    Well done, you were justified absolutely I was told by a cop that I would have been good drawing on a few punks threatening my well being. Seems like that cop didn't like that you were able to handle things on your own but at least the other cop was a good guy.

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    In my opinion anybody in that situation will do the same. and I am sure the cop who was saying you over reacted will be doing the same or even shooting that car/guy

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    Hit by rock or gunfire you did what you had to and any cop would of done the same.
    Just glad your ok.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Good job , good reactions, I honestly don't think any gun carrier would have reacted differently. If it really was gun fire you would have been prepared to return it possibly saving your life or others in the area.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    A fist sized rock is deadly force in my book. Absolutely justified.

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    Justified and your behavior was text book perfect. You didn't blindly fire, but took pains to look around for the threat.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    CaptainAttila wrote:
    A fist sized rock is deadly force in my book. Absolutely justified.
    Damn right. Fist-sized rock a little higher & to the side and he'd be in the hospital right now or dead. ANY cop would have reacted the same in that situation, and probably fired as well.

    OP: Have you by chanced checked with the store to see if maybe they caught the incident on a security camera? Might be enough to get the plate of the coward who ran off.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    anybody else would reat the way you did. so, where exactly this happened at? I would like to go personally and see that place.

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    How did you identify the "shooter," and was the fact that he didn't have a gun visible the reason you decided not to use deadly force?

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    CaptainAttila wrote:
    A fist sized rock is deadly force in my book. Absolutely justified.
    You got that right. +100

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    Justified. A one ounce missile is deadly force in some jurisdictions.

    The word was 'Jefe', literally, chief.

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    triehl27 ,

    Thanks for sharing your experience . It's good to think about different types of scenarios beforeit might happen . My lady and I went to the greasy spoon for an early supper today Saturdays are steak special day. I was OC & she was CC . She asked me what would I do if the SHTF . Taking cover and exiting if possible while making sure your safe too , was my answer . We ended with me saying , how is this supposed to work if you will not listen to me ? Pretending to be POed while I'm inside .

    What were you carryingwhen you were doing the correct thing ?

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    When I was in junior high I knew a girl that for permanent brain damage from a rock that came through a car window and hit her in the head.
    if it was "unlawful force" you are legally allowed to draw. Maybe not shoot, but draw, yes.

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    As opencary? asked earlier, where this incident happened at?

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    CaptainAttila wrote:
    A fist sized rock is deadly force in my book. Absolutely justified.
    Since the time of Cavemen rocks have been used to kill, and continue to be used for the same purpose to this day. No question that having a large rock thrown at you would put you in fear for your life. All the justification one needs to use force to defend themself. The cop who told you that you over-reacted is certainly not the final authority. That's why they just call them "cops", not Judges and Juries. Sleep well at night knowing that you did nothing wrong and don't hesitate to do so should the same scenario come to play.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    I think you did fine especially since you didn't shoot but rather identified your target first. If you had shot them and I was on the jury you wold walk but everything worked out or seems to have.

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    amlevin wrote:
    CaptainAttila wrote:
    A fist sized rock is deadly force in my book. Absolutely justified.
    Since the time of Cavemen rocks have been used to kill, and continue to be used for the same purpose to this day. No question that having a large rock thrown at you would put you in fear for your life. All the justification one needs to use force to defend themself. The cop who told you that you over-reacted is certainly not the final authority. That's why they just call them "cops", not Judges and Juries. Sleep well at night knowing that you did nothing wrong and don't hesitate to do so should the same scenario come to play.
    You know.... if you think about it, broken down to it's most base function, a firearm is nothing more than a rock-throwing machine.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Phssthpok wrote:
    amlevin wrote:
    CaptainAttila wrote:
    A fist sized rock is deadly force in my book. Absolutely justified.
    Since the time of Cavemen rocks have been used to kill, and continue to be used for the same purpose to this day. No question that having a large rock thrown at you would put you in fear for your life. All the justification one needs to use force to defend themself. The cop who told you that you over-reacted is certainly not the final authority. That's why they just call them "cops", not Judges and Juries. Sleep well at night knowing that you did nothing wrong and don't hesitate to do so should the same scenario come to play.
    You know.... if you think about it, broken down to it's most base function, a firearm is nothing more than a rock-throwing machine.
    Someone in an online forum once used the following as a Signature "The reason I carry a gun is that I can't throw rocks at 1300 fps".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  25. #25
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    As the Israelis can tell you, rocks are deadly weapons. When thrown, they can kill a person. If someone is throwing fist sized rocks, it is an attack with a deadly weapon and should be treated as such.

    If you had spotted the rock thrower, and he had another rock in his hand and it looked like he was going to throw another one, you would have been justified in firing upon the threat in order to stop the threat.

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