Roanoke Times and Dan Casey strikes again

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Task Force 16 wrote:

Dan: Legal concealed carry in bars is a bad idea!

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Can't be no worse than illegal concealed carry in bars, and that's been going on for decades. Didn't hear anyone complaining about it then.

BTW, am I wrong or are Virginians already allowed to OC in bars?

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Here in Virginia OC is the only legal option to carry in any establishment that serves alcohol/has an ABC license.

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yes we are open carry only in places that serve

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xdm guy wrote:

yes we are open carry only in places that serve

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OK, then you are trying to get CC legal as well, right? If that's the case, why are these people wetting their drawers now?

I mean, this makes no sense what so ever. IIRC you don't need a permit to OC in Virginy, OC is legal in bars, and you want CC (permit required)legal too. And these panty waists are whinning over something they won't be able to see? :what:

I think you folks have a mental health problem over there.

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curtiswr wrote:

Task Force 16 wrote:

Dan: Legal concealed carry in bars is a bad idea!

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Can't be no worse than illegal concealed carry in bars, and that's been going on for decades. Didn't hear anyone complaining about it then.

BTW, am I wrong or are Virginians already allowed to OC in bars?

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Here in Virginia OC is the only legal option to carry in any establishment that serves alcohol/has an ABC license for on premises consumption..

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Fixed it for you.

Re: Casey - To give links or refer to the pro side while basing his articles and headlines on an anti position does not redeem him. He is capable of making intelligent conclusions and taking a position, though doing so may not fit his job description.

Reminds me of the old saw - if it barks, growls, has fleas and sits in the middle of the road licking its d***; it must be a dog. Casey is just such an creature and I do not let that kind in my house.

Yata hey

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Task Force 16 wrote:

OK, then you are trying to get CC legal as well, right? If that's the case, why are these people wetting their drawers now?

I mean, this makes no sense what so ever. IIRC you don't need a permit to OC in Virginy, OC is legal in bars, and you want CC (permit required)legal too. And these panty waists are whinning over something they won't be able to see? :what:

I think you folks have a mental health problem over there.

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Before "shall issue" permits (hand gun only), we had "may issue." Even then, with may issue CWP, you could carry concealed in a restaurant that served alcohol - I did!

Now I OC where ever and when ever possible.

The mental health problem is not exclusive to Va. It reached pandemic proportions with Brady, MMM and the recent Hope & Change bunch.

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

Task Force 16 wrote:

OK, then you are trying to get CC legal as well, right? If that's the case, why are these people wetting their drawers now?

I mean, this makes no sense what so ever. IIRC you don't need a permit to OC in Virginy, OC is legal in bars, and you want CC (permit required)legal too. And these panty waists are whinning over something they won't be able to see? :what:

I think you folks have a mental health problem over there.

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Before "shall issue" permits (hand gun only), we had "may issue." Even then, with may issue CWP, you could carry concealed in a restaurant that served alcohol - I did!

Now I OC where ever and when ever possible.

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That's a good point Grape. I was able to legally carry CC in bars.

Even more, in those days we had the saddlebag law where people (women in particular) could carry CC in hand luggage, without a permit.
CC in bars is not a new idea.

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hsmith wrote:

Neplusultra wrote:

peter nap wrote:

Kaine said about the anti smoking bill today:
“Once it happens you don’t see a move to go backwards andI think it is because people will get the experience and realize that this a good thing for health and just for aesthetic enjoyment of people eating out,” said Kaine.

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In the old days, when people still had property rights, there was this custom when you walked into a restaurant, the waitress would ask you, "Smoking or non-smoking?" She would then seat you in the section reserved for what you chose. That way everyone was happy. The non-smokers enjoyed the flavor of their food and their clothing remained fresh smelling. The smokers got their nicotine fix which allowed them to enjoy their meal. And restaurant owners were happy because they got the business of both groups. Ahhh. Those were the days :^).

The only ones that weren't happy were the over zealous do-gooders who would see the smokers smoking on the other side of the restaurant. But who cares about them :^)?

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Even here up in NoVA, we have NON SMOKING RESTAURANTS! Golly, the FREE MARKET figured out that people didn't want to eat in smoke filled filth! And guess what, no law needed to be passed!

Crazy how that free market works!

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Yeah its insane how efficiently things work when you just let them do their thing. When you start forcing a square peg into a circular hole....you might get it through but only after you do a little damage. NOVA was working just fine in regards to smoking. If the owners don't like it....don't put out ashtrays. If the employees don't like it...work next door. If the patrons don't like it...go to a different bar. Choice isn't only about gay rights and abortion.

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Task Force 16 wrote:

BTW, am I wrong or are Virginians already allowed to OC in bars?

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Virginia has no bars.

Virginia has restaurants, some of which have ABC licenses allowing them to sell alcohol for on-premises consumption.

The finest restaurant in town and the worst dive in town have exactly the same legal standing.

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Neplusultra wrote:

peter nap wrote:

Kaine said about the anti smoking bill today:
“Once it happens you don’t see a move to go backwards andI think it is because people will get the experience and realize that this a good thing for health and just for aesthetic enjoyment of people eating out,” said Kaine.

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In the old days, when people still had property rights, there was this custom when you walked into a restaurant, the waitress would ask you, "Smoking or non-smoking?" She would then seat you in the section reserved for what you chose. That way everyone was happy. The non-smokers enjoyed the flavor of their food and their clothing remained fresh smelling. The smokers got their nicotine fix which allowed them to enjoy their meal. And restaurant owners were happy because they got the business of both groups. Ahhh. Those were the days :^).

The only ones that weren't happy were the over zealous do-gooders who would see the smokers smoking on the other side of the restaurant. But who cares about them :^)?

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Yeah and then restaurants as an industry started making the boundaries between smoking and non-smoking more porous than swiss cheese. That had the unfortunate result of making the area furthest away from the smoking section still stink & reek of cigarette smoke.

Thing is, everyone started off as a non-smoker. That is the default state. You choose to be a smoker. In my case, I don't even have that choice. The smoke alone makes my allergies flare up bad enough to justify a trip to the hospital for breathing difficulties.

That Sandi lady though... she's a real piece of work. Even when confronted with evidence contrary to her stance, she's highly dismissive of it and would happily sell out anyone who cares about firearms.

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Grapeshot wrote:

Before "shall issue" permits (hand gun only), we had "may issue." Even then, with may issue CWP, you could carry concealed in a restaurant that served alcohol - I did!

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Do you know when the may issue turned to shall issue?Was thislaw to disallow CC in restaurants passed at the same time? I was thinking of giving Dan my 2 cents worth, and will point this out to him. He should be able to find some evidence of a drop in "bar" crime at this time.

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but this one goes to 11....

Why not just increase 10 to the same loudness as 11, and still call it 10?

:shock:

But this one goes to 11....

Put up the sign and don't enforce....that's what I thought of...lol.. Nigel rocks - and they are back from the dead

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Task Force 16 wrote:

xdm guy wrote:

yes we are open carry only in places that serve

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OK, then you are trying to get CC legal as well, right? If that's the case, why are these people wetting their drawers now?

I mean, this makes no sense what so ever. IIRC you don't need a permit to OC in Virginy, OC is legal in bars, and you want CC (permit required)legal too. And these panty waists are whinning over something they won't be able to see? :what:

I think you folks have a mental health problem over there.

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If you read the total string of comments, over a number of different posts, and filter through all the rubbish, you will see that the Dan, the author of the original piece, is making the argument that people carrying a concealed gun inside a "bar" will, after having too much to drink, all the sudden get intoa "face off" with another patron.

I think we all know why this is foolish. The columnist isn't able to back up his theory with any data, but that doesn't matter I guess.

Now, look at where this columnist works. The Roanoke Times published a list of CHP holders and personal information, simply becauseit was their 1st Amendment right to publish it.No service was provided with the list.It was not news in any way. Thisjust continues alone with their anti-gun agenda.

Also, it appears as though there is some sort of a competition between their columnists to jack up the post count in their blogs. On a recent one, the columnist basically got out on his own blog and encouraged people to comment along the lines of "hey it's been 4 hours and not comments. come on, say something". Dan seems to troll his own posts looking for nonsense to argue with.

So, I suppose they have their panties in a wad about this now, just because it is"provocative", to steal Dan's own description of his opinion.

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buster81 wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Before "shall issue" permits (hand gun only), we had "may issue." Even then, with may issue CWP, you could carry concealed in a restaurant that served alcohol - I did!

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Do you know when the may issue turned to shall issue?Was thislaw to disallow CC in restaurants passed at the same time? I was thinking of giving Dan my 2 cents worth, and will point this out to him. He should be able to find some evidence of a drop in "bar" crime at this time.

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I believe it was in 1995 that we went from CWP to CHP and lost CC in restaurants serving alcohol. My google fu is not serving me well today, so no cite.

I think I remember that date from a Va-Alert where it was referenced.

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

buster81 wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Before "shall issue" permits (hand gun only), we had "may issue." Even then, with may issue CWP, you could carry concealed in a restaurant that served alcohol - I did!

Click to expand...

Do you know when the may issue turned to shall issue?Was thislaw to disallow CC in restaurants passed at the same time? I was thinking of giving Dan my 2 cents worth, and will point this out to him. He should be able to find some evidence of a drop in "bar" crime at this time.

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I believe it was in 1995 that we went from CWP to CHP and lost CC in restaurants serving alcohol. My google fu is not serving me well today, so no cite.

I think I remember that date from a Va-Alert where it was referenced.

Yata hey

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This is all I could find, but it doesn't mention CC in a restaurant.

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/ShallIssue.htm

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buster81 wrote:

This is all I could find, but it doesn't mention CC in a restaurant.

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/ShallIssue.htm

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This is an old review and out of date in some instances i.e.
"Virginia has no centralized data base of concealed weapon permits. Each of 123 circuit courts in Virginia would have to be contacted in order to determine how many permits are currently issued."

The VSP does indeed have a centralized data base of CHP holders - that in fact is a requirement for reciprocity with some other states and it was this information that the Roanoke Times so recklessly published a while back.

Yata hey

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An Op-Ed from Philip Van Cleave:

Cool the smoldering fear-mongering on guns

By Philip Van Cleave
Van Cleave is the president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League in Midlothian

Unlike what Casey wrote, under Virginia law gun owners currently may openly carry into a restaurant and drink if they wish. But they are not allowed to get drunk. Truth is, that while it is legal, gun owners are simply not interested in drinking and carrying a gun.

The bill that passed the General Assembly this year would have allowed for concealed handgun permit holders to be able to carry concealed as long as they didn't drink. Gun owners were fine with that. They simply want to be able to carry discreetly in restaurants and enjoy a meal.

The people you should be worried about, violent criminals, already carry in restaurants concealed. Unlike permit holders, they don't care that it's illegal.

So it is not about carrying concealed in bars and drinking, as Casey says, (Virginia doesn't have actual bars, by the way -- they are always part of an eating establishment) it is about carrying concealed and eating in restaurants that happen to serve alcoholic beverages.

While Casey enjoys fear-mongering about "smoldering wisps that emerge from hot pistol barrels after some permit-holding, gun-hiding patrons get into a face-off," he fails to point out that currently those same gun owners can legally carry concealed at special events where alcohol is served and have been doing so for decades. All without problems.

Such imaginary face-offs with permit holders have been used shamelessly for a long time now by those who hate guns. When Virginia started issuing permits on a "shall issue" basis in 1995, people like Casey were screaming about the danger of shoot-outs in grocery stores after two carts collide in the aisle.

Those dire warnings all turned out to be nothing more than active imaginations working way over time. But 14 years later, here we go again.

Finally, I wonder where Casey was when another bill passed the General Assembly last year and was signed into law by Gov. Tim Kaine that allows off-duty commonwealth's attorneys to carry concealed and drink in restaurants? I didn't hear a word from him or The Roanoke Times bemoaning that one.

I have no problem with commonwealth's attorneys or permit holders carrying concealed and having a drink with their meal. They are all good people who have a proven track record of being law-abiding citizens. Let's not paint any of them as something they are not in order to push for more pointless gun control.

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Well said. Kudos to Philip.

Yata hey

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Yea Phil! Great work!

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Mr. Van Cleave is a gifted writer and orator for our cause.

Thank you for all you doPhillip; keep up the great work!

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MSC 45ACP wrote:

Mr. Van Cleave is a gifted writer and orator for our cause.

Thank you for all you doPhillip; keep up the great work!

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Not so much that Mr Van Cleave is a "gifted" writer. A "gifted" writer is one who can lay words to paper in such a way as to convey his/her view to the reader in understandable fashion, while getting his spelling and grammer correct.

Joseph Geobbels was a "gifted" writer.

Karl Marx was a "gifted" writer.

Dan Casey is a "gifted" writer.

And yes, Philip Van Cleave is a "gifted" writer. Heck, so are Mike, John and a few others on this board.

The difference between the first 3 writers mentioned above and the others is that Geobbels, Marx, and Casey wrote/write lies and try to pass them off as truths. Van Cleave, Mike, JOhn and the others write with truth and honesty, backed by factual evidence.