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Thread: Open Carry of Knives (and a hello!)

  1. #1
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    Hey guys, my name is Chris (provita) and I've been lurking around these forums for a good year now. Usually I have a hard time joining new forums and actually being a part because I feel overwhelmed by everyone's expertise!

    Frankly I've collected knives for two years now, and I've carried them as a tool and as a last-ditch form of defense for about a year now ever since I got my first girlfriend. I feel this strange need to know that, if anything were to go terribly wrong, I would have the ability to at least attempt to defend her from evil people. The same thing now extends to my family and friends, and even strangers (if, heaven forbid, something downright awful occurred in front of me and I could defend them!)

    I come from a conservative family, however my widowed mother is anti-knife and anti-gun (her friend in high school was stabbed). Regardless of civil discussions, she is impossible to convince, so I have given up that road. Being only 18 and given my situation, it is no surprise I have only been to the range once (two months ago) and that it will probably be a long time until I can own a gun (especially since I want to become more knowledgeable and responsible).

    The long point made short is this: I want to be able to defend myself, but more importantly those that I love; however, I cannot own a gun. I own several knives, pepper spray, and a stun gun. Yet the pepper spray and stun gun almost feel... useless to me. They feel like they would only anger an assailant even more.

    And so I carry a folding knife on me at all times, at the largest possible concealed limit of 4 inches. (A Spyderco Tenacious, currently).

    The idea of open carry has intrigued me for a year now, and I was wondering what you guys really thought about it.

    I just recently bought my first honest-to-God quality fixed blade (a Kabar Short) and have worn it a few times at a few gas stations, and every time I felt people were staring me down. I have yet to even see a cop when open carrying and I know Constitutionally I can carry any knife as long as it is open and not a switchblade.

    However, I was wondering if any of you (LouisianaCarry probably knows...) know the legality of the open carry of fixed knives over 4 inches. Especially in New Orleans, Metairie, Kenner, and Baton Rouge soon once I go to LSU?

    Loaded question, probably won't get much of a response. I've tried to look it up and I've found nothing saying it is illegal, but I'm still worried and all of you guys seem to be real nice!

    And, do you think it's a good idea to open carry a fixed blade?

    Thanks guys! Hope to see you sometime at one of the meetups, and hope I can somehow join this community with my limited knowledge

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    Welcome Provita,

    Allthough most of our members are extremely helpful as well as knowlageable when it comes to such laws, I know nothing in this arena. Louisiana carry, Yale, XD GEM, and probably countless others will probably have the awnsers you seek. Look for them and again welcome.

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    Welcome to OCDO.

    The tactical advantage of OCing a fixed blade vs. CC of a folder where the BG sees the OC first... Sorry, wrong thread.

    Someone here should point you in the right direction. Welcome again.



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    Does theConstitution say you can carry a knife?

    Why can't you own a gun?

    You will probably have a problem with the knife at LSU.

    And welcome to the forum

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    Well, I am not nearly as verse in Louisiana Constitution Article 1 Section 11 as many here are, but as far as current Louisiana STate law, there is no disticntion made for open carrying anything, even a knife.

    Therefore, it would appear you are good to go. To my knowledge, the only distinction state law makes as it applies to knives in that only exempted people, LEO, EMS, etc, are allowed automatic knives.

    Hope it helps.

    Here is the law as it applies to CC
    §14:95. Illegal carrying of weapons
    A. Illegal carrying of weapons is:
    (1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person; or
    (2) The ownership, possession, custody or use of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used as a dangerous weapon, at any time by an enemy alien; or
    (3) The ownership, possession, custody or use of any tools, or dynamite, or nitroglycerine, or explosives, or other instrumentality customarily used by thieves or burglars at any time by any person with the intent to commit a crime; or
    (4) The manufacture, ownership, possession, custody or use of any switchblade knife, spring knife or other knife or similar instrument having a blade which may be automatically unfolded or extended from a handle by the manipulation of a button, switch, latch or similar contrivance.
    (5)(a) The intentional possession or use by any person of a dangerous weapon on a school campus during regular school hours or on a school bus. "School" means any elementary, secondary, high school, or vo-tech school in this state and "campus" means all facilities and property within the boundary of the school property. "School bus" means any motor bus being used to transport children to and from school or in connection with school activities.
    (b) The provisions of this Paragraph shall not apply to:
    (i) A peace officer as defined by R.S. 14:30(B) in the performance of his official duties.
    (ii) A school official or employee acting during the normal course of his employment or a student acting under the direction of such school official or employee.
    (iii) Any person having the written permission of the principal or school board and engaged in competition or in marksmanship or safety instruction.
    B.(1) Whoever commits the crime of illegal carrying of weapons shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.
    (2) Whoever commits the crime of illegal carrying of weapons with any firearm used in the commission of a crime of violence as defined in R.S. 14:2(B), shall be fined not more than two thousand dollars, or imprisoned, with or without hard labor, for not less than one year nor more than two years, or both. Any sentence issued pursuant to the provisions of this Paragraph and any sentence issued pursuant to a violation of a crime of violence as defined in R.S. 14:2(B) shall be served consecutively.
    C. On a second conviction, the offender shall be imprisoned with or without hard labor for not more than five years.
    D. On third and subsequent convictions, the offender shall be imprisoned with or without hard labor for not more than ten years without benefit of parole, probation, or suspension of sentence.
    E. If the offender uses, possesses, or has under his immediate control any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, while committing or attempting to commit a crime of violence or while in the possession of or during the sale or distribution of a controlled dangerous substance, the offender shall be fined not more than ten thousand dollars and imprisoned at hard labor for not less than five nor more than ten years without the benefit of probation, parole, or suspension of sentence. Upon a second or subsequent conviction, the offender shall be imprisoned at hard labor for not less than twenty years nor more than thirty years without the benefit of probation, parole, or suspension of sentence.
    F. The enhanced penalty upon second, third, and subsequent convictions shall not be applicable in cases where more than five years have elapsed since the expiration of the maximum sentence, or sentences, of the previous conviction or convictions, and the time of the commission of the last offense for which he has been convicted; the sentence to be imposed in such event shall be the same as may be imposed upon a first conviction.
    G.(1) The provisions of this Section except Paragraph (4) of Subsection A shall not apply to sheriffs and their deputies, state and city police, constables and town marshals, or persons vested with police power when in the actual discharge of official duties. These provisions shall not apply to sheriffs and their deputies and state and city police who are not actually discharging their official duties, provided that such persons are full time, active, and certified by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and have on their persons valid identification as duly commissioned law enforcement officers.
    (2) The provisions of this Section except Paragraph (4) of Subsection A shall not apply to any law enforcement officer who is retired from full-time active law enforcement service with at least twelve years service upon retirement, nor shall it apply to any enforcement officer of the office of state parks, in the Department of Culture, Recreation and Tourism who is retired from active duty as an enforcement officer, provided that such retired officers have on their persons valid identification as retired law enforcement officers, which identification shall be provided by the entity which employed the officer prior to his or her public retirement. The retired law enforcement officer must be qualified annually in the use of firearms by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and have proof of such qualification. This exception shall not apply to such officers who are medically retired based upon any mental impairment.
    (3)(a) The provisions of this Section except Paragraph (4) of Subsection A shall not apply to active or retired reserve or auxiliary law enforcement officers qualified annually by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and who have on their person valid identification as active or retired reserve law or auxiliary municipal police officers. The active or retired reserve or auxiliary municipal police officer shall be qualified annually in the use of firearms by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and have proof of such certification.
    (b) For the purposes of this Paragraph, a reserve or auxiliary municipal police officer shall be defined as a volunteer, non-regular, sworn member of a law enforcement agency who serves with or without compensation and has regular police powers while functioning as such agency's representative, and who participates on a regular basis in agency activities including, but not limited to those pertaining to crime prevention or control, and the preservation of the peace and enforcement of the law.
    H. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit active justices or judges of the supreme court, courts of appeal, district courts, parish courts, juvenile courts, family courts, city courts, and traffic courts, constables, coroners, district attorneys and designated assistant district attorneys, United States attorneys and assistant United States attorneys and investigators, and justices of the peace from possessing and concealing a handgun on their person when the justice or judge, constable, coroner, district attorneys and designated assistant district attorneys, United States attorneys and assistant United States attorneys and investigators, or justices of the peace are certified by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training.
    I. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit the carrying of a concealed handgun by a person who is a college or university police officer under the provisions of R.S. 17:1805 and who is carrying a concealed handgun in accordance with the provisions of that statute.
    J. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit the ownership of rescue knives by commissioned full-time law enforcement officers. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit the carrying of rescue knives by commissioned full-time law enforcement officers who are in the actual discharge of their official duties. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit the sale of rescue knives to commissioned full-time law enforcement officers. The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit the ownership or possession of rescue knives by merchants who own or possess the knives solely as inventory to be offered for sale to commissioned full-time law enforcement officers. As used in this Subsection, a "rescue knife" is a folding knife, which can be readily and easily opened with one hand and which has at least one blade which is designed to be used to free individuals who are trapped by automobile seat belts, or at least one blade which is designed for a similar purpose. No blade of a rescue knife shall exceed five inches in length.
    K.(1) The provisions of this Section shall not prohibit a retired justice or judge of the supreme court, courts of appeal, district courts, parish courts, juvenile courts, family courts, and city courts from possessing and concealing a handgun on their person provided that such retired justice or judge is certified by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and has on their person valid identification showing proof of their status as a retired justice or judge.
    (2) The retired justice or judge shall be qualified annually in the use of firearms by the Council on Peace Officer Standards and Training and have proof of such certification. However, this Subsection shall not apply to a retired justice or judge who is medically retired based upon any mental impairment.
    Amended by Acts 1956, No. 345, §1; Acts 1958, No. 21, §1; Acts 1958, No. 379, §§1, 3; Acts 1968, No. 647, §1; Acts 1975, No. 492, §1; Acts 1986, No. 38, §1; Acts 1992, No. 1017, §1; Acts 1993, No. 636, §1; Acts 1993, No. 844, §1; Acts 1994, 3rd Ex. Sess., No. 143, §1; Acts 1995, No. 636, §1; Acts 1995, No. 930, §1; Acts 1995, No. 1195, §1; Acts 1995, No. 1199, §1; Acts 1997, No. 508, §1; Acts 1997, No. 611, §1; Acts 1997, No. 1064, §1; Acts 1999, No. 738, §1; Acts 1999, No. 924, §1; Acts 1999, No. 953, §1; Acts 2003, No. 608, §1; Acts 2003, No. 766, §1; Acts 2006, No. 515, §1; Acts 2006, No. 589, §1; Acts 2008, No. 172, §1.


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    provita wrote:
    Hey guys, my name is Chris (provita) and I've been lurking around these forums for a good year now. Usually I have a hard time joining new forums and actually being a part because I feel overwhelmed by everyone's expertise!

    Frankly I've collected knives for two years now, and I've carried them as a tool and as a last-ditch form of defense for about a year now ever since I got my first girlfriend. I feel this strange need to know that, if anything were to go terribly wrong, I would have the ability to at least attempt to defend her from evil people. The same thing now extends to my family and friends, and even strangers (if, heaven forbid, something downright awful occurred in front of me and I could defend them!)

    I come from a conservative family, however my widowed mother is anti-knife and anti-gun (her friend in high school was stabbed). Regardless of civil discussions, she is impossible to convince, so I have given up that road. Being only 18 and given my situation, it is no surprise I have only been to the range once (two months ago) and that it will probably be a long time until I can own a gun (especially since I want to become more knowledgeable and responsible).

    The long point made short is this: I want to be able to defend myself, but more importantly those that I love; however, I cannot own a gun. I own several knives, pepper spray, and a stun gun. Yet the pepper spray and stun gun almost feel... useless to me. They feel like they would only anger an assailant even more.

    And so I carry a folding knife on me at all times, at the largest possible concealed limit of 4 inches. (A Spyderco Tenacious, currently).

    The idea of open carry has intrigued me for a year now, and I was wondering what you guys really thought about it.

    I just recently bought my first honest-to-God quality fixed blade (a Kabar Short) and have worn it a few times at a few gas stations, and every time I felt people were staring me down. I have yet to even see a cop when open carrying and I know Constitutionally I can carry any knife as long as it is open and not a switchblade.

    However, I was wondering if any of you (LouisianaCarry probably knows...) know the legality of the open carry of fixed knives over 4 inches. Especially in New Orleans, Metairie, Kenner, and Baton Rouge soon once I go to LSU?

    Loaded question, probably won't get much of a response. I've tried to look it up and I've found nothing saying it is illegal, but I'm still worried and all of you guys seem to be real nice!

    And, do you think it's a good idea to open carry a fixed blade?

    Thanks guys! Hope to see you sometime at one of the meetups, and hope I can somehow join this community with my limited knowledge
    CHris, can you or someone else tellme where that is written, I have been lookinf for it and may have just overlooked it.

    thanks

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    Chris since you are in N.O.if you feel the need for some training before you start carrying or buying a weapon it would be good to take some of NOLOCOP's classes since he's in the N.O. area.

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    nolacopusmc wrote:
    provita wrote:
    snip
    CHris, can you or someone else tellme where that is written, I have been lookinf for it and may have just overlooked it.

    thanks
    I will be honest, I have never come across it on any official State document, or any official government website. People locally purport this whole "no longer than the width of your palm" idea, however I have also heard that the blade "cannot be any longer than the distance from the bottom of your hand to the start of your middle finger."

    Both of those sound entirely false and quite archaic. A few months back I visited this website (link: http://www.thehighroad.org/library/b...knifelaws.html ), but it seems that the link won't work anymore. It *used* to be a yellow table that listed all the states and their knife laws summarized. By memory it said "yes" to open carry of a fixed blade and "no" to a concealed carry of a fixed blade. It also said for a folding blade to be concealed it must be less than 4 inches, with a link to some obscure court case that caused a felon to be arrested because apparently he was carrying a deadly weapon.

    So, if I were to naively interpret that (and it is fully possible the website was wrong), I suppose it means that a folding knife greater than 4 inches is considered a deadly weapon and thus, perhaps, in violation of 14.95, A, (1):

    The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person

    But hey, I'm probably wrong. That is why I have always had a slight worry when it comes to knife laws. Especially since knife laws, to my understanding, could vary from parish to parish and city to city. And I drive in a lot of cities... (Mostly Metairie, Kenner, New Orleans, and Harahan)! Plus I cannot find any credible website with clear answers that can be backed.

    Now it seems my only source is now a "404".

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    charlie12 wrote:
    Chris since you are in N.O.if you feel the need for some training before you start carrying or buying a weapon it would be good to take some of NOLOCOP's classes since he's in the N.O. area.
    That sounds very interesting actually! Any details would be very helpful

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    You can send him a PM him and get the details on the classes he teaches.

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    There are generally not local ordanances when it comes to weapons. The sad part is something will generally be determined as a deadly weapon or not based pn the circumstances, your history, and your perceived intent. A "reasonable" folding blade clipped in a pocket or even in a holster on the belt is common place. A Crocodile Dundee 14" blade down the back, not so much:shock:.

    There is nothing saying 4" is legal or illegal. It is one of those officer descretion things.

    I read your OP, but maturity depending, given you are only 18, the state has kinda left you OC of a fireram as an only option. Do you not have a gun due to parebntal issues?

    I would let you take my CC course for free just to get some insight, even if you intend to OC.

    The knife issue is not remotely a clear cut one. You are good to go with your Spyderco.

    If you get a chance, check out Bayoushooter.com and speak with Paul Gomez. He is much better thanme with knife training, and he knows for real experts in the field if that is what you are serious about.

    Stun guns are crap. Get an actual Taser C2. I can train you on that also. If you want to do some pepper spray training, we can get some guys from here togather and do some exposure and fighting training with it.

    Knifes aree more dangerous to you than the bad guy if you do not truly know how to knife fight.



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    nolacopusmc wrote:
    I would let you take my CC course for free just to get some insight, even if you intend to OC.

    Okay, enough is enough!! You made another offer yesterday. What's going on?

    I'll fly to N.O. My gun, your ammo. Another CHP class too. Settled.

    provita--Take his offer. Maybe the retention class too.

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    nolacopusmc wrote:
    Well, I am not nearly as verse in Louisiana Constitution Article 1 Section 11 as many here are, but as far as current Louisiana STate law, there is no disticntion made for open carrying anything, even a knife.
    Sure you are. You just used more words.

    "The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged,..."

    Simple.

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    Article 1, Section 11, Louisiana Constitution
    §11. Right to Keep and Bear Arms

    Section 11. The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person.
    Welcome aboard, Chris. This quote is from the State Constitution and is important to know. While I cannot find a definition about knife blade length in the searchable database of Louisiana laws, I do remember reading it somewhere. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read about it. The law may have been changed to drop the length definition in the wake of various Homeland Security laws at the national level.

    As I recall, the law considered a blade of less than 4" to be a tool and not a weapon in the sense that nolacopusmc has posted above. The idea was that no one wanted to outlaw carrying a small pocketknife like a Boy Scout knife or a Swiss Army knife.

    I used to know a guy who always carried a K-bar on his belt everywhere he went, and no one ever bothered him about it; but that was 20 years ago.

    There may be some case law that refers to blade length, and perhaps someone with Westlaw access can try to find that for you.

    BTW as for appearing ignorant (or even less knowledgable) about things discussed here, don't sweat it. Ignorance in and of itself isn't a problem - willfully remaining ignorant is. No one can know everything, and so the collective knowledge and experience of a group like this an be extremely helpful. People on this board are great about helping new folks out, but please ask them to back up anything they post and then check it out for yourself before you jump into anything.

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    Ok fella's , I got one !

    You cannot buy a hand gun at 18, right ? But you can OC a hand gun at 18, correct?

    If you can't buy one , where are you suppose to aquire said hand gun ?

    I have wondered this before. Is it not against the law to buy a hand gun for a minor (under 21) ?

    I remember reading somthing in the law about age but being WAY over both 18 and 21, I blew past it.

    Some body clear this up ?

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    CaptainDan wrote:
    Ok fella's , I got one !

    You cannot buy a hand gun at 18, right ? But you can OC a hand gun at 18, correct?

    If you can't buy one , where are you suppose to aquire said hand gun ?

    I have wondered this before. Is it not against the law to buy a hand gun for a minor (under 21) ?

    I remember reading somthing in the law about age but being WAY over both 18 and 21, I blew past it.

    Some body clear this up ?
    I thought as long as the "minor" was supervised by an adult he could carry a weapon. The only thing I can find is this: http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=105547

    But it only pertains to hunting. Gonna keep looking.

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    Oscarr wrote:
    CaptainDan wrote:
    Ok fella's , I got one !

    You cannot buy a hand gun at 18, right ? But you can OC a hand gun at 18, correct?

    If you can't buy one , where are you suppose to aquire said hand gun ?

    I have wondered this before. Is it not against the law to buy a hand gun for a minor (under 21) ?

    I remember reading somthing in the law about age but being WAY over both 18 and 21, I blew past it.

    Some body clear this up ?
    I thought as long as the "minor" was supervised by an adult he could carry a weapon. The only thing I can find is this: http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=105547

    But it only pertains to hunting. Gonna keep looking.
    I see two possible ways:

    1. The 18 y.o. could be using a family gun.
    2. The 18 y.o. could have been given a gun as a gift.

    Nothing is registered, how are they going to know where you got it anyway?

    The last time I purchased a firearm (picked up a little .22 rifle for the wife) from Academy sports, I think I signed something stating I was purchasing it ONLY for myself. Don't know if it was a store or state form, who really gives a s#!t anyway as it's total bs. I seem to also recall that they escorted me to my car and placed the rifle in my trunk. I asked if I looked like I was going to go postal, they said that it's store policy. :?


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    http://louisianacarry.org/oc/ scroll down to Frequently Asked Questions, #6

    Here's some more stuff for under-17 year old possession of a handgun: http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78747

    Wow, you really can carry with just written permission from parent/legal-guardian, had someone tell me that once but I was skeptical, that's awesome!



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    provita wrote:
    However, I was wondering if any of you (LouisianaCarry probably knows...) know the legality of the open carry of fixed knives over 4 inches. Especially in New Orleans, Metairie, Kenner, and Baton Rouge soon once I go to LSU?

    Loaded question, probably won't get much of a response. I've tried to look it up and I've found nothing saying it is illegal, but I'm still worried and all of you guys seem to be real nice!
    Doesn't item (4) stated above in §14:95 state that the only ILLEGAL knife is one that "may be automatically unfolded or extended from a handle by the manipulation of a button, switch, latch or similar contrivance"?

    (4) The manufacture, ownership, possession, custody or use of any switchblade knife, spring knife or other knife or similar instrument having a blade which may be automatically unfolded or extended from a handle by the manipulation of a button, switch, latch or similar contrivance.

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    CaptainDan wrote:
    Ok fella's , I got one !

    You cannot buy a hand gun at 18, right ? But you can OC a hand gun at 18, correct?

    If you can't buy one , where are you suppose to aquire said hand gun ?

    I have wondered this before. Is it not against the law to buy a hand gun for a minor (under 21) ?

    I remember reading somthing in the law about age but being WAY over both 18 and 21, I blew past it.

    Some body clear this up ?
    LOL. Welcome to Louisiana Law. This is the classic loophole similiar to our old alcohol law where is was legal to possess and drink alcohol under 21, but you could not legally buy it.

    The fatc that you can OC a weapon under 21 but cannot buy the ammo is another stupid example.

    FLawed legal verbiage.

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    Didn't someone post before that a person under 21 could buy a handgun in a FTF sale but not from a FFL?

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    Chris,

    Im pleased whenever I hear about young Americans like yourself getting interested in gun rights. My parents was the typical anti-gun types , that believed in "peace" and "working things out". Which is nice in a post card , but not practical in real life. Im replying to you to let you know there isnt anything wrong with defending your own self. Its based in natural law. We are mostly hairless animals that still need to defend ourselves.

    Im sure you'll find alot of friendly people on her and count myself as one. Write back!

    Rick

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    charlie12 wrote:
    Didn't someone post before that a person under 21 could buy a handgun in a FTF sale but not from a FFL?
    I am not positive, but I believe that to me the case also. I am sure one of the resident ATF legal experts can post accordingly. But i did hear that on a couple boards.

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    Hey, I'm sure an answer has already been given to the question at hand. But, I figured I'd go ahead and add my 2 cents as well. I actually have a copy of the ATF handbook that has all the gun and knife laws for every state. In Louisiana, the only kind of knife that can be considered illegal is one like a switchblade. The only time that length is mentioned as being an issue is when it comes to rescue knives. Which is where I think the 4 inch thing is. I'd have to go back and make sure about the measurement. But, that is why I've been confused whenever I'd see the sticker on the knife case at some gas stations that said it was state law that blades couldn't be more than 3 inches. That is a complete lie, and near as I figure has never been an actual state law.

  25. #25
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    i think it is an urban legend that a blade about 4' is as large as a common folde rgets, so that by default kinda became the norm. No law in theis state to the contrary one way or the other.

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