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Thread: Fuming after the Gun Show

  1. #1
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    Crossroads of the West Gun Shows are the very worst kind of hypocrites, they make their fortune from the gun owners and then not only support but actively take part in the infringement of their rights.

    Not only did they demand that they convert my sidearm into a hammer, but then proceeded to unload my magazine and hand me my empty magazine and bullets in a zip-lock bag. I felt like I had entered the Peoples Republic of Komifronia.

    I wish I had the time and money to fight them over this. The South Towne Expo Center is public property and as such should fall under the restriction of UCA 53-5a-101(5) which states:

    (5) Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact, establish, or enforce any ordinance, regulation, rule, or policy pertaining to firearms that in any way inhibits or restricts the possession or use of firearms on either public or private property.
    It will be a cold day in hell before they get another penny of my hard earned money.

    edit:spelling


  2. #2
    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    I agree it has been almost 2 Years since I have been back.

    Now I choose to buy local instead of going to the gun show.

    Whats worse is all the gun clubs and organizations that support them.
    Zach
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    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

  3. #3
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    crossroads of the west SUCKS! theres nothing at a gunshow that you cant get on KSL for cheaper.

  4. #4
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    rpyne wrote:
    I wish I had the time and money to fight them over this. The South Towne Expo Center is public property and as such should fall under the restriction of UCA 53-5a-101(5) which states:

    (5) Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact, establish, or enforce any ordinance, regulation, rule, or policy pertaining to firearms that in any way inhibits or restricts the possession or use of firearms on either public or private property.
    The Expo Center did not make the rule, a private company leasing the space made the rule.

    As far as I know, "The Crossroads of the West" is not a local authority or a State entity.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  5. #5
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    all the more reason to NOT go! yeaaa lets just go OC at the mall instead, cheaper, more fun, less liberal republicans! (yes, there is such a thing!)

  6. #6
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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    rpyne wrote:
    I wish I had the time and money to fight them over this. The South Towne Expo Center is public property and as such should fall under the restriction of UCA 53-5a-101(5) which states:

    (5) Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact, establish, or enforce any ordinance, regulation, rule, or policy pertaining to firearms that in any way inhibits or restricts the possession or use of firearms on either public or private property.
    The Expo Center did not make the rule, a private company leasing the space made the rule.

    As far as I know, "The Crossroads of the West" is not a local authority or a State entity.
    A private company leasing it does not change the fact that it is public property. This issue was debated and decided shortly after the statewide preemption bill was passed and the Secret Service wanted to turn it into a secure facility for a VP speech to the state Republican Convention. They could not do so without providing storage as required by 76-8-311.1(4):

    (4) (a) Provisions shall be made to provide a secure weapons storage area so that persons entering the secure area may store their weapons prior to entering the secure area.
    (b) The entity operating the facility shall be responsible for weapons while they are stored in the storage area.
    Also, it was an Expo Center security person that was enforcing the rule, so it was a local authority doing the enforcement.


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    b1ack5mith wrote:
    less liberal republicans! (yes, there is such a thing!)
    More of them in Utah than most anywhere else. We call them RINOs -- Republican In Name Only. Far too many of them hold elected office.

  8. #8
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    funny you mention that.... sgt. Jensen, TJ and I went to a republican convention... a "republican" came up talkin crap to me! (for carrying)the funny thing is, TJ was next to me, and he had like 2+ guns on him, and the guy did'nt say a word to him! pickin on the younger gut eh! oh wait it was back when i had my piercings also... that might be part of it... but i was still dressed nice and fixed my hair and everything! (kinda went for the george clooney "oh brother where art thou"hairdo lol)

  9. #9
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    b1ack5mith wrote:
    funny you mention that.... sgt. Jensen, TJ and I went to a republican convention... a "republican" came up talkin crap to me! (for carrying)
    I remember that guy, he was a bit irrational! He was upset mostly about your piercings. I thought you looked perfectly acceptable.



    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  10. #10
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    thank you kevin! i tried cleanin up a bit with the S&W belt buckle, western shirt, boot cut jeans etc

    (and now that all my piercings are out, im lookin for a good pair of cowboy boots and a hat!) yeeeep, i decided to become country (ill avoid tobacco though hahaha)

    ill get some pics of the front yard tomarrow... youre gonna love the signs my mom put up! we have had tons of 9/12ers, good religious and conservative people come up and thank us, were making so many friends! one older man, i invited him in and he saw a couple of my guns there in the front room, and we got to talking about OC and stuff, hes a big 2A guy. when you get back sgt. Jensen, you gotta make signs for your yard too!!! weel have a "sign-a-thon" lol!

    and where can i get a glock shirt like that


  11. #11
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    rpyne wrote:
    A private company leasing it does not change the fact that it is public property. This issue was debated and decided shortly after the statewide preemption bill was passed and the Secret Service wanted to turn it into a secure facility for a VP speech to the state Republican Convention. They could not do so without providing storage as required by 76-8-311.1(4):
    Sorry Pyne. But it was the United States Secret Service that created and enforced the gun ban, NOT the GOP. There may be other issues to discuss--as I have offered in a previous thread--about a private lessee of government property imposing a rule that the entity itself could not enforce. But the US SS enforcing a gun ban won't be part of it.

    Charles


    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  12. #12
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    rpyne wrote:
    Crossroads of the West Gun Shows are the very worst kind of hypocrites, they make their fortune from the gun owners and then not only support but actively take part in the infringement of their rights.

    Not only did they demand that they convert my sidearm into a hammer, but then proceeded to unload my magazine and hand me my empty magazine and bullets in a zip-lock bag. I felt like I had entered the Peoples Republic of Komifronia.


    I can see and understand both sides of this issue. We certainly ought to be free to carry our self-defense most places we go.

    OTOH, a gun show or gun store has unique safety concerns compared to every other store or gathering in this nation.

    Where else but a gun store or gun show is it common and accepted to have people handling guns, working the actions, sighting guns where there simply is no safe direction, etc?

    In an ideal world, everyone would strictly observe all the rules of safe gun handling and this would not be a problem.

    In a slightly less ideal world, self defense guns would be allowed under the condition they remain holstered. Any guns being bought, sold, traded, worked on, fitted for new accessories, etc would have to be unloaded. But how does anyone make sure that any given gun being handled was not carried in as a loaded self-defense gun?

    So we live in a world where many gun shows and gun stores will require that all guns entering the premises be unloaded.

    Inasmuch as such private rules have no force of law in Utah, lacking metal detectors or other means to determine whether I am armed, my BUG generally stays concealed, loaded, ready for use, and unmentioned even if I need to unload an OC piece.

    Simply put, it may not be exactly the rule I'd adopt (or maybe it is if I ran a show and watched countless idiots mishandle guns in the middle of hundreds of my other customers, I don't know). But I can understand legit rational for the rule that does not involve any hypocrisy at all.

    Now, when Wal-Mart or Smiths allows me to unholster my gun and show it to any and all interested parties, letting them handle it, sight it, etc, without it being considered a crime, THEN they can talk about legit safety concerns and whether my gun should be unloaded while in their store.

    Charles


    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  13. #13
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    utbagpiper wrote:
    rpyne wrote:
    A private company leasing it does not change the fact that it is public property. This issue was debated and decided shortly after the statewide preemption bill was passed and the Secret Service wanted to turn it into a secure facility for a VP speech to the state Republican Convention. They could not do so without providing storage as required by 76-8-311.1(4):
    Sorry Pyne. But it was the United States Secret Service that created and enforced the gun ban, NOT the GOP. There may be other issues to discuss--as I have offered in a previous thread--about a private lessee of government property imposing a rule that the entity itself could not enforce. But the US SS enforcing a gun ban won't be part of it.

    Charles

    Read my post again, that is exactly what I said. However, the point remains that it was the GOP, a private organization, that had leased the facility. Therefor, if a private entity leasing a public facility can effect a ban there would have been no issue.

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    rpyne wrote:
    Read my post again, that is exactly what I said. However, the point remains that it was the GOP, a private organization, that had leased the facility. Therefor, if a private entity leasing a public facility can effect a ban there would have been no issue.
    This makes no sense. There was no real issue. I contend that the GOP could have effected a ban if they wanted to. But they had no reason to want to, nor would the delegates have supported such a move. The gun ban at the GOP convention that year was imposed and enforced by the US SS because they were responsible for protecting the VP. The ban ended when he left the building.

    We hashed all this out on the other thread dealing with private parties leasing or renting government facilities. And while I can find cases where I believe it would be improper to impose a gun ban, there are also cases where I believe the private right to control access must allow for a gun ban.

    Charles


    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    I was not impressed with the Last Gun Show before the June show. I went to 2 this year and the same booths and gun and stuff is there each time.

    I CC there do they have a rule about that as well? If so, they not going back!

    KSL is the best gun show at no cost!

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