• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

VA Law Question

PeteXD

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
87
Location
Arlington, Virginia, USA
imported post

Ok, so one of the first things I opened up and took a look at upon visiting and registering for this site was the "Law Library." In it I found, conveniently, a Va laws brochure. In this brochure it states that, "Loaded handguns on the seat or dashboard of a vehicle, in plain view while in a vehicle are fine." I would like to know exactly where this can be proved because today at work my fellow Force Protection Officers and I had a heated discussion about it. I've read through alot of the state law and its all too friggen wordy for me.

So, I'm looking for a link to the specific State Code, or something of that sort to prove my case to my fellow co-workers.

Also, while I'm OCing and I'm in my car, if my seatbelt covers the weapon does it then become concealed?

any and all help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Peter
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

You won't find such a statute, because laws don't permit, they forbid. Since we're talking about a legal activity, we should expect not to find laws addressing the subject.

The relevant statues are Virginia's concealed weapons statues:
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

As for the seatbelt query, there is still no consensus. One argument goes that, if you sit in a booth in a restaurant you have not concealed as you made no attempt to conceal the weapon and any change of position will reveal it, so why shouldn't this work in a car with regards to the seatbelt as well? The other argument goes that a seatbelt comes too close to covering the gun like a garment would, so this is concealed.

Perhaps someone can share the most recent thread with this debate. I failed to locate it.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
imported post

This comes up about omce a month. As much as I hate this answer, do a search!

Force Protection Officers :shock::shock:
 

ChinChin

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
683
Location
Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
imported post

You won't find it just like you won't find a law which states you can lay in a field and watch clouds pass by; or a law which states you can sit at a starbucks and read a paper, or a law which states you can put mayo on french fires.

VA LISspells out what you CANNOT do under law; not what you CAN do.
 

TexasNative

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
856
Location
Austin, TX
imported post

ChinChin wrote:
...or a law which states you can put mayo on french fires.
Some folks believe that there should be a law against this practice. :) I'm not among them, since I routinely order a side of mayo with my fries for just that purpose.

Sorry for the digression. We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum thread.

~ Boyd
 

ianto94

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
142
Location
, ,
imported post

The concept is that the weapon is not concealed and therefore no violation of the law.
 

PeteXD

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
87
Location
Arlington, Virginia, USA
imported post

so, because the law does not clearly outline that act as illegal (it doesn't even vaguely outline it as illegal either) then it is legal? Has anyone gotten an answer like this from a lawyer? judge? police officer?

Has anyone here ever been pulled over while their firearm is sitting in the passenger seat of their car?

What should be done if one were to find themselves in this situation. Get pulled over and have the pistol riding shotgun?

I dont ever plan to be pulled over, but you never know... I also don't want to have it in my holster while seated as I am right handed and it would be covered by the seat belt causing two things: 1.) possible misconception by law enforcement that the weapon is concealed because it is not in plain view. 2.) Being that the seatbelt covers it, the ease of draw is completely nullified. If a situation were to arise where I needed it quick fast and in a hurry I'd be up shit creek without a paddle while fiddling with my seatbelt.


this crap makes my head hurt... :banghead::banghead::banghead:
 

ianto94

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
142
Location
, ,
imported post

I know of people who have been pulled over in VA in the situation you outline and there was no issue. As to a holstered firearm that is not covered by a garment, it is not concealed even with you riding in a car with the seat belt on. But why not just get a concealed carry permit and not worry whether its concealed or not.

As far as needing to draw in that situation, hard to say. I would be more concerned having the gun loose on the seat where a sudden stop or swerve could move it out of your reach.
 

curtiswr

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,133
Location
Richmond, VA, ,
imported post

PeteXD wrote:
Has anyone here ever been pulled over while their firearm is sitting in the passenger seat of their car?
Most certainly have.

There was a funeral procession for a fallen police officer that completely clogged southbound 95 in Northern VA a while back but not too far ago, I'm talking in the recent year, maybe even last 6 months). I had my XD45 sitting in the passenger seat as it was getting uncomfortable while sitting in the traffic/driving. Same for my wallet, it was starting to dig in and get uncomfortable so I placed it next to my handgun in the passenger seat.

I exited off of 95 and drove down Route 1 a little ways (on my way back to Richmond) and made my way back towards 95 on a side road. The side road was at a stand still jam because the funeral procession was still causing backup on 95 and the entry ramps.

After sitting in the same spot for 10 minutes I did a u-turn but in order to do so I had to drive over the median. One of the three or four state troopers waiting down the road waved me to the side of the road and asked me why I did that. I explained to him that I had active Crohn's Disease, no medical insurance for a while and finally was able to afford a trip to the doctor for some treatment and I couldn't miss my appointment in Richmond. He said okay and asked for my license. I let him know that I was going to reach on my passenger seat and grab my wallet and that next to it was a pistol. He said "that's fine" and I got my license and gave it to him. He looked at it, didn't run it, and told me to drive safely.

That said, though, I don't like having my pistol sitting freely in the passenger seat. I don't like the possibility that in a wreck it can go flying around, or even if I had to hit the brakes hard. Others have mounted holsters to the console or dashboard that keeps the handgun secure in case of a wreck/hard brake and keeps them comfortable while driving. I just keep it on my hip while I drive now.
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
imported post

curtiswr wrote:
That said, though, I don't like having my pistol sitting freely in the passenger seat. I don't like the possibility that in a wreck it can go flying around, or even if I had to hit the brakes hard.
Bingo.

It's amazing what small objects can become deadly projectiles in an accident situation. Imagine a loaded firearm...

Also, even though it is patently illegal, I have heard of officers being on the passenger side and entering (reaching) the vehicle and preemptively confiscating a firearm. Same can be done from the dashboard on the driver's side.

The safest place for your sidearm to be is at your side. If you're going to carry open, belted in, get a voice recorder and make sure that ANY conversation regarding your firearm (including your initial notification) is recorded.

I think that as more and more officers witness more and more law-abiding citizens carrying openly that they will themselves become more comfortable with it. We have to remember that this "movement" represents a total paradigm shift for many groups of people, law-enforcement not being the least of them.
 

TexasNative

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
856
Location
Austin, TX
imported post

wylde007 wrote:
...I have heard of officers being on the passenger side and entering (reaching) the vehicle and preemptively confiscating a firearm. Same can be done from the dashboard on the driver's side.
Of course, regardless of if or how you're carrying, the smart play is to have all your doors locked and all windows rolled up at least enough so the the officer can't reach into the vehicle. I suppose it could get hot after a while, but it's probably worth it to protect yourself from some overreaching (pun intended) LEO.

~ Boyd
 

PeteXD

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
87
Location
Arlington, Virginia, USA
imported post

yeah the whole reason currently (until I got my CHP) for the gun on seat thing is comfort. I have some pretty heavily bolstered seats which make carrying a pistol quite uncomfortable while in the car. it will probably be something that i will have to endure until that ol' CHP comes my way... and my iphone has a voice record option on it and that will have to suffice until i can find something suitable enough.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

From the "Virginia Gun Owner's Guide", 2006 edition, page 54.

"The same rules that apply to carrying a handgun on yourself apply to carrying a handgun in a car. ... A loaded handgun resting on the seat next to you or on your dashboard is legal, as long as the firearm is not "hidden from common observation""

Your friend is incorrect and you should ignore whatever he says which is contrary to this.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
imported post

I don't have it handy, but isn't there an AG opinion or two floating around out there which make reference to the fact that OC is legal? I believe the opinion was not exactly about OC, but mentioned in passing that since OC was legal, etc, etc.

Someone should probably put together a list of references like that and make it a sticky post.

TFred
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

TFred wrote:
I don't have it handy, but isn't there an AG opinion or two floating around out there which make reference to the fact that OC is legal? I believe the opinion was not exactly about OC, but mentioned in passing that since OC was legal, etc, etc.

Someone should probably put together a list of references like that and make it a sticky post.

TFred

This jogged something for me.

The VA State Police website declares OC legal. Second paragraph. Note that it is not limited to "about the person while only on foot."

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Transporting.shtm



Your proper "chain of legal authority" begins with the VA Constitution. Article I, Section 13 is VA's "Second Amendment."

http://legis.state.va.us/Laws/search/Constitution.htm#1S1

Unless you are a prohibited person, or in a prohibited location or circumstance, (see VASP website for quick info and links to statutes) there is nothing between you and Article 1, Section 13.

As the others have said, if there is not a law against something, then it is legal.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

TFred wrote:
I don't have it handy, but isn't there an AG opinion or two floating around out there which make reference to the fact that OC is legal? I believe the opinion was not exactly about OC, but mentioned in passing that since OC was legal, etc, etc.

Someone should probably put together a list of references like that and make it a sticky post.

TFred

There are some official letters on VCDL's website. I didn't see one exactly on your point, but there is one from VASP about the legality of OC, and one from the AG about the legality of OC in a restaurant licensed to serve alcohol.

http://www.vcdl.org/static/letters.html
 

Jonesy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
416
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
imported post

The Supreme Court of Virginia decided the Pruitt case http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1061701.pdf

Pruitt was charged with concealing a weapon about his person for storing the weapon in his glovebox after being in an accident. The facts indicate that he had been driving with his pistol on the front passenger street. His carry of the pistol on the front seat was not an issue even though he admitted to carrying it in this way, because such is not a violation with the pistol in plain view.
 

NavyVA

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
58
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
imported post

IMO, I don't see the difference between sitting OC in a restaurant booth and sitting OC in the same 3 o'clock position in a drivers seat, seat belt slides right under the holster and never has the chance of accidental firing my XD9SC by removing or returning it to my holster.

By the way, I finally got my CHP, just under a month!
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

Jonesy wrote:
The Supreme Court of Virginia decided the Pruitt case http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1061701.pdf

Pruitt was charged with concealing a weapon about his person for storing the weapon in his glovebox after being in an accident. The facts indicate that he had been driving with his pistol on the front passenger street. His carry of the pistol on the front seat was not an issue even though he admitted to carrying it in this way, because such is not a violation with the pistol in plain view.
Good catch. Thanks for the cite, Jonesy.

Asa side note, I noticed the statute says "carries about his person", yet Pruitt's action was to store the gun. Not carry it.

I wonder why this was not brought up. Seems really obvious to me.
 
Top