Glock 20?

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Just me sayin it, again. I love my Springfield XD! Ammo availabilty, stopping power, knock down, it's all there. Not fond of Glocks and they're no better than any other weapon and you pay extra for the name. .45 ACP was invented to stop the Phillipine insurrection, doped up tribesman wrapped themselves in vines and charged right through .38 cal pistol fire. When hit by a .45 ACP it chunked em on there backsides.

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I fully agree on your thoughts on a .45 as you might have guessed.
I am a 1911 person myself, thought I have Single action SIgs 220s also and 2 Glocks my wife owns that are 9 mm. The reason I have have shy away from the XD is I seen to many have problems at Shooting matches, Plus I a not a fan of Polymer guns. This is just my personal taste. And what I have seen in I. D. P. A. matches I have to trust my gun with my life so I was weened on a 1911, can build one and repair one with ease. I stick what I trust and know will go bang every time.
S/F. Vic

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Michigander wrote:

You guys are making me want a 10! The problem is that I'm not fond of the Glock action, nor do I want a single stack.

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The Glock20 isn't a single stack, neither is the Glock29. 15 round mag in the full size and 10 in the subcompact, 15 rounder optional.

I don't think any Glock Mag is single stack

Just curious, what aren't you "fond" about with the Glock action?

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reconvic wrote:

I fully agree on your thoughts on a .45 as you might have guessed.
I am a 1911 person myself, thought I have Single action SIgs 220s also and 2 Glocks my wife owns that are 9 mm. The reason I have have shy away from the XD is I seen to many have problems at Shooting matches, Plus I a not a fan of Polymer guns. This is just my personal taste. And what I have seen in I. D. P. A. matches I have to trust my gun with my life so I was weened on a 1911, can build one and repair one with ease. I stick what I trust and know will go bang every time.
S/F. Vic

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Thank God for John Moses Browning.

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Me, I don't like "striker-fired" pistols for much the same reason I hate the idea of carrying a cocked-and-locked 1911, repeat after me, "safeties are mechanical devices and they can and do fail". I want also to be able to do multiple strikes on a slow primer. I am a firm believer ingun control, so long as it is my weapon I want to control it.

I saw those nice ballistic gelatin test photos but human flesh is more resilient than gelatin so these don't really give a great picture of stopping power. I usually carry a Walther PPK/s in .380 and at the range I practce the "Mozambique Drill" (double tap to center of mass and a followup to the head). In fact, I was practicing this before I ever HEARD of the term "Mozambique Drill". Just seemed like commonsense to me.

As for legal troubles, either you are justified in using lethal force or you are not. If you are and you do not, you are probably going to be dead. If you are not and you do you are most definitely going to be effed.

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If you really want a G20 get it, you won't be disappointed.

For those of us that don't find it too large to carry daily it just might be the perfect all around carry gun.

The 10mm is a great gun for S/D or medium to large Game animals.
There are many choices when deciding on what ammo to carry, there is 10mm lite which is basically 40SW (which is basically a hundred yr oldloading,38-40), there is also 10mm medium, Corbon, Silvertips.

The truehard hitting ammo in 10mm comes from Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, Georgia Arms and Reed's, with Double Tap being the Best stuff out there for 10mm, imho.

Bullet weights range from 135 to 230gr's, and vary greatly on how they are designed toperform.
The original 10mm loads (Norma) penetrated deeply but the jacket was to hard to expand with any reliability, great for hunting but not S/D.
Corbon, Federal and Remington were the first to come out with decent S/D ammo, for a while Corbon even had some great hunting ammo (190gr JFP@ just <1300 fps)

As for the Harold Fish incident, imho his attorney was a idiot and Fish deserves a new trial.
The round he usedwas demonizedfirst for being a BlackTalonand secondly for being too powerful, anyone that knows anything about 10mm knows Win BT is a medium velocity 10mm loading.

Both should have been easily defensible, especially when you consider 10mm is a authorized caliber in the county Fischer was tried in.

Many LE agencies still allow or authorized 10mm for on and off duty usage.

The FBI had their 10mm's download to what we now know as 40S&W because agentsthought it recoiled too much.
Funny because every woman I've let shot my 10mm has gone out and bought one for S/D.


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Most of the people that will tell you the 10mm is bad have never shot or owned one let alone seen it perform in the field.


If you decide you like the larger frame of the G20 but can't find or don't want to shoot 10mm you have your choice of calibers you can convert it to, 40SW, 357sig or 9x25

With just a switch of the barrel (nothing more) you can shoot 40S&W, .357Sig and 9x25 Dillion.

With a barrel, slide and mag conversion kit you can also shoot .22LR and .50G.I.

I use Lone Wolf and Bar-Sto barrels in my guns the prices range from $99 to $250.
Lone Wolf has also introduced a 6" slide for the G20

There is also a barrel conversion to 45acp but I haven't shot one enough to comment on the reliability for S/D usage.

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Woodchuck wrote:

I don't think any Glock Mag is single stack

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G36, 37 and 38.

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OP, if you want 10mm but don't want a Glock I suggest a Dan Wesson Pointman orRazorBack in SA's or a S&W 610 for revolver fans.
Colt is as reintroducing the DE but I haven't seen a new one yet.

If you happen to have a Ruger GP100 laying around, that you don't shoot often, Clement's custom guns in VA does a 10mm conversion on them.

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Woodchuck wrote:

The Glock20 isn't a single stack, neither is the Glock29. 15 round mag in the full size and 10 in the subcompact, 15 rounder optional.

I don't think any Glock Mag is single stack

Just curious, what aren't you "fond" about with the Glock action?

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I didn't say the Glock was a single stack. I'm well aware of that. There are however single stack 10 mm 1911's.

I don't like the trigger pull at all on Glocks. It's too long, and not crisp enough. For a first pull with no safety, I want it to be about that long, but harder, and have subsequent shots have short, crisp single action pulls. I also think they're hideously ugly, and not accurate enough. But the thing is, for the price and performance, they can end up being the only smart choice.

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Michigander wrote:

I don't like the trigger pull they're hideously ugly, and not accurate enough. But the thing is, for the price and performance, they can end up being the only smart choice.

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There are ways to address most trigger issues with Glocks.

As for the accuracy.
I'm :?.
More of a ammo issue, all my Glocks are accurate, with the right ammo they are tack drivers.
I've made 200 yard shoots/kills with my 10mm.

The ugly, well it is what it is, it ain't no beauty contest.

I doubt the BG willnotice, but if he wants to be shot (again) with a more attractive firearm I could probably accommodate.

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Agent19 wrote:

Michigander wrote:

I don't like the trigger pull they're hideously ugly, and not accurate enough. But the thing is, for the price and performance, they can end up being the only smart choice.

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There are ways to address most trigger issues with Glocks.

As for the accuracy.
I'm :?.
More of a ammo issue, all my Glocks are accurate, with the right ammo they are tack drivers.
I've made 200 yard shoots/kills with my 10mm.

The ugly, well it is what it is, it ain't no beauty contest.

I doubt the BG will notice, but if he wants to be shot (again) with a more attractive firearm I could probably accommodate.

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I do agree on the above post, Glocks are not nearly as accurate as a 1911 ( a good one) Glocks won't take reloads without switch the barrel. Besides it being an ugly gun in my eyes. The one thing I will say they will fire in most conditions. A good cheap reliably gun. High caps are just not my style I am more of a bullseye shooter now and have my 1911s set-up that way. You will never see a Glock at Camp Perry lol. It is great for LEO, and I feel the Military who do need High caps mags. Just one mans take.
BTW: My wife has 2 G-19's and for Self defense she shoots it well. I look to shoot one hole groups only.

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reconvic wrote:

Glocks are not nearly as accurate as a 1911 ( a good one)

Glocks won't take reloads without switch the barrel. Besides it being an ugly gun in my eyes.

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Most people don't shoot accurately enough to be able to tell the difference.

Not true.

Glocks are able to fire reloads without a AF barrel.
The type of rifling found on Glocks special care should be taken if one uses lead bullets, the build up can happen very quickly, easier just not to use lead bullets(factory or reloads)
AF barrels are advisable if you plan on using lead bullets.
With almost any manufacturer you void the warranty if you admit to using reloads if you havea repair issue.

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Michigander wrote:

Woodchuck wrote:

The Glock20 isn't a single stack, neither is the Glock29. 15 round mag in the full size and 10 in the subcompact, 15 rounder optional.

I don't think any Glock Mag is single stack

Just curious, what aren't you "fond" about with the Glock action?

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I didn't say the Glock was a single stack. I'm well aware of that. There are however single stack 10 mm 1911's.

I don't like the trigger pull at all on Glocks. It's too long, and not crisp enough. For a first pull with no safety, I want it to be about that long, but harder, and have subsequent shots have short, crisp single action pulls. I also think they're hideously ugly, and not accurate enough. But the thing is, for the price and performance, they can end up being the only smart choice.

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Um, yea, ya pretty much did.

Michigander wrote:
You guys are making me want a 10! The problem is that I'm not fond of the Glock action, nor do I want a single stack.

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Plus this thread is about the Glock 10mm, not a 10mm from any other manufacturer, hence the title "Glock 20?".



Trigger issue, first pull is long yes, but subsequent shots do have a short and somewhat crisp release. Don't release your finger all the way, just bring it forward till the "click".

Beauty... it sure as hell isn't made for a beauty pageant, it's made to be there and work when ya need it. Took a CC class this Feb and at the range there were more Glocks than anything, zero problems. Seen multiple issues with 1911's and a Beretta. There was pretty High Point 45 that outperformed all the 1911's too.

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Glocked and Loaded wrote:

I am currently OC'ing a Glock 26 and it does not feel right.
I want to get a full size Glock 20, I figure I should get the most powerful one I can get.

I would like to hear other peoples opinions regarding me getting something so powerful for self defense. Is it too much? would I have a really hard time in court if I ever have to use it?

All opinions are welcome. I would like to hear the good and the bad in regards to getting that.

As far as Ammo Price I do not mind.

As well I would like to note that I do want a Glock but would like to hear what other high power handgun would be something to look at.

And since im asking. Where would be the cheapest place to get it?

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FIRST: Remember that ALL handguns are terrible for self defense.

You do not need a .45 for self defense. You need to learn to aim and deliver rounds to your target efficiently. Only hits count. 9mm will work. Don't believe me? Shoot yourself with a 9mm a few times in the heart. keep in mind that "a 9mm won't kill a person, it'll just piss em' off"

If the 26 is too small, get a 19.

if you think the 19 is to small, you are either above 6'6"/over 250lbs, or you are a Gorilla.

If an 11 year old girl can shoot a Glock 19 and make hits, so can you.

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Michigander wrote:

I also think they're ... not accurate enough.

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WHOA.

Glocks "not accurate enough" !?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIne0fpSF-s

Watch his other Glock videos too. I linked that one because the thread is about the G20. In most, if not all, of his Glock videos he shoots targets out to 75/80 yards... even with the subcompact models.

Here's a video of him coming very close to, and finally hitting, a target at 150 yards with the subcompact Glock 27.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO9V0_5X9OE

Glocks are more than accurate enough. Do your part and they will do their part.

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Woodchuck wrote:

Um, yea, ya pretty much did

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You're misunderstanding me dude. You have taken the totality of the reasons for why I don't have a 10, and construed it purely as a statement about Glocks.

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curtiswr wrote:

WHOA.

Glocks "not accurate enough" !?!?

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Out of the box, no, they are not in my opinion. Maybe I'm just a Sig snob. :uhoh:

Yes, I know Bar Sto and others have aftermarket barrels and trigger mods. That is not being questioned by me or anyone else.

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Michigander wrote:

Out of the box, no, they are not in my opinion. Maybe I'm just a Sig snob. :uhoh:

Yes, I know Bar Sto and others have aftermarket barrels and trigger mods. That is not being questioned by me or anyone else.

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The displays of accuracy that I linked to are with all stock Glocks, with no aftermarket barrels or triggers (with the exception of when he switches to a LWD barrel in order to shoot lead bullets in his G21 video). His display of proof trumps your opinion in this case.

But yes, for what it's worth, I think that you can definitelychalk your opinion up to brand snobbery.

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curtiswr wrote:

The displays of accuracy that I linked to are with all stock Glocks, with no aftermarket barrels or triggers (with the exception of when he switches to a LWD barrel in order to shoot lead bullets). His display of proof trumps your opinion in this case.

But yes, for what it's worth, I think that you can definitelychalk your opinion up to brand snobbery.

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Interchangeable with the term "accurate" I think is the term "shootable". I don't think anyone here can reasonably say that a Glock trigger can compare to a fine single action. The trigger on a Glock, by itself, can make it harder to shoot accurate and fast.

I also think everyone can agree, based if nothing else on recorded Ransom rest tests, that Glocks are not the most accurate out of the box, particularly if you don't find their favorite ammo.

Jerry Miculek and others like him can pull off amazing things with less accurate guns with nasty triggers, because they are simply damn good. I'm not a bad shot, but I'm not THAT good, and that's why I'm not so fond of Glock as they come from the factory. But as I keep saying, if you want full capacity and unfailing reliability, particularly at a reasonable price, they seem like the only choice.:?

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Buy a Glock

put a good set of adjustable night sights on it: I reccomend XS sights

learn to shoot

shoot a lot

stop complaining.

Glocks don't shoot crooked, shooters do.

here is proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB2IjENrtIo

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I just traded for a Glock 20 SF and took it to the range yesterday. Only had 45 rounds for it but the wife and I were able to enjoy it both of us agreed the recoil wasn't any worse then my G22, her xd40, the G21 or G19 that we rented. We were both able to shoot accuratley. Now to get my order from double tap so we can go back to the range and shoot more. I would highly recomend the Glock 20 (from my little expierence) to anyone it's a great handgun with minimal recoil and it's very accurate. The only problem is the ammo but oh well.

When I first started getting into handguns when I moved to VA I didn't want anything to do with glocks even though glocks were the guns I used to always want when I was a kid. I started out with a XD 40 for my wife mainly since she liked it. Then I got a XDM40 sold that to get a sig 226 since I shot one in Afganistan and loved it. But after I got it and started shooting it, it didn't feel right in my hands so I got a G22 and G23. Now I'm addicted to Glocks they are great guns from my expierence gien I'm not as expierenced as most of you. But here's my .02 cents for what its worth.

I hope what I wrote made since my grammer sucks. But hey I'm workin on that and slowly getting better.



Semper Fi