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Thread: Roadblock last night

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    Hi everyone; I am new to the forums. I have been viewing some of the topics that all of you wonderful people have posted, and this has been a very resourceful website with most of my questions. I have a concealed weapons permit and I came accross a road block last night around 11 PM in Leeds, Alabama on Hwy 119 in Jefferson County. About 10 police cars were there and some LEO's were standing in the road with flashlight wands. When I slowed to a stop, I was asked to provide my license and proof of insurance. I have read some sources on the internetthat it is required by law to inform a police officer if you are carrying a concealed weapon. If I was carrying a concealed weapon, should I have informed the police officer? I thought about voluntarily telling him, but I thought since I didn't know if we are required to inform them, that if I told him, that it could've have escalated into a situation where he was asking me to step out of the car or something. Am I required in the state of alabama to inform the police officer requesting my papers at a road block if I am carrying a concealed weapon? If so, how should I expect to be treated?

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Do you REALLY want advice... or just fishin'? I care less what some of these guardhouse lawers will tell you. Advise the cop you're armed. No surprises. Then ask how to proceed. 'Does much to defuse a situation before it happens.

    It's the right thing to do.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Well, there you have it. Sonora's opinion. And he doesn't care what other's think. Seems to me there's no room for debate.

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    what was it a DUI check or somethin? i dont know about alabama but i would of done the same thing you did. no point in bringing up something other then the reason you are stopped in the first place. how you will be treated depends on the cop, no one can tell you how your situation will go

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    It will vary state by state.

    Does Alabama have a statute requiring notification? Some states do.

    If so, let them know as required by law.

    If not, limit your interaction to what is required by law.

    Remember the 5th Amendment.

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    if there is no state requirement to inform--don't inform if the gun is on your person...if it is in your glove box--and you have to open the box to get any papers needed--then inform.

    Don't diffuse a situation that does not exist---because sometimes telling them you have a gun when there is absolutely no requirement to inform might very well turn them into a Rambo wannabe more than what most of them already are....informing them when there is no requirement, or when you don't have to reach in the direction the gun may be--is a crapshoot; because you have no idea the mentality of the man who has stopped you.

    Bottom line--if the state you are in has a requirement to inform--then inform, if not--then keep quiet if you don't have to reach toward the gun...defusing a situation that does not exist--can and sometimes does create more problems than it solves.

    another piece of advice--keep your wallet either in the opposite hip, away from the gun, OR in your dash within reach--that way you don't have to reach toward the gun. This is how I do it anyway.


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    Decoligny wrote:
    It will vary state by state.

    Does Alabama have a statute requiring notification? Some states do.

    If so, let them know as required by law.

    If not, limit your interaction to what is required by law.

    Remember the 5th Amendment.
    And the 4th Amendment...don't consent to any searches..remember, if they have to ask for permission--they don't need to search and are only fishing.

    if they try to intimidate you, simply tell them you want to speak to a supervisor, and then if you have sufficient reason after the encounter--file an official complaint if you feel the officers have crossed the line...because a lot of times they simply won't like it if you try to exercise your Constitutionally protected rights and will either resort to trying to make up a reason to arrest you, or will simply try to intimidate you into cooperating.

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    Please forgive my compatriots' lack of manners.

    WELCOME TO OCDO!!!!!!

    No offense, but I think you might have had the logic a little backward. If you don't know if it is required, it might be smarter to assume it is and volunteer the information. Beats the heck out of getting a ticket for failure to notify.

    The moral of the story is to know the law. (I'm afraid someone else will have to help with that; I don't know Alabama law.)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    i would of thought they would tell you the state law in the CCW class

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    r6-rider wrote:
    i would of thought they would tell you the state law in the CCW class
    Good point there R-6, besides if you tell them in advance it will put them at ease because the minute they run your plate they will know if you are a have a concealed carry permit. To Quote Rebel it is the right thing to do.
    S/F Vic

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    reconvic wrote:
    r6-rider wrote:
    i would of thought they would tell you the state law in the CCW class
    Good point there R-6, besides if you tell them in advance it will put them at ease because the minute they run your plate they will know if you are a have a concealed carry permit. To Quote Rebel it is the right thing to do.
    S/F Vic
    Only if you are driving a vehicle registered to you (instead of your wife, girlfriend, brother, mother, corporation or LLC), and only if your state automaticly informs of CCW, (Arizona is not supposed to, but the officer can specifically ask for that information).

    I am of two minds on this, so I play it situation by situation if not required by law. Some people report that they think they get treated better if they have a CCW.

    If you are carrying openly you may not be limited by CCW constraints.

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    You are correct I 99% of the time drive my car and did answer that with that in mind , good catch. Yet I would still inform the LEO that I was carrying a loaded weapon just to put them at ease a bit.
    S/F Vic

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    suntzu wrote:
    if there is no state requirement to inform--don't inform if the gun is on your person...if it is in your glove box--and you have to open the box to get any papers needed--then inform.

    Don't diffuse a situation that does not exist---because sometimes telling them you have a gun when there is absolutely no requirement to inform might very well turn them into a Rambo wannabe more than what most of them already are....informing them when there is no requirement, or when you don't have to reach in the direction the gun may be--is a crapshoot; because you have no idea the mentality of the man who has stopped you.

    Bottom line--if the state you are in has a requirement to inform--then inform, if not--then keep quiet if you don't have to reach toward the gun...defusing a situation that does not exist--can and sometimes does create more problems than it solves.

    another piece of advice--keep your wallet either in the opposite hip, away from the gun, OR in your dash within reach--that way you don't have to reach toward the gun. This is how I do it anyway.
    Thats the best advice, in my opinion.

    Inform if you have to by law.

    Inform if you will have to reach for anythingclose to wherethe gun is.

    In all other cases, don't notify.

    As the ole' English saying goes - "don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you".

    As for the states which have automatic record regarding the CCW pop up when they run your tags/license (VA is one of those), I don't really see how it changes anything. Ok, he ran your tags and found out you have a permit. What next? He can either chose to ask if you have the gun on you in which case don't lie and tell him how it is, or not.

    Also, most (reasonable) cops would be much more at ease if they first find out you have a permit and then find out about the gun, rather than the other way around. You know, if he runs your tags and sees clean record and an active CCW, chances are you are not gonna start shooting everyone in sight because he gives you a ticket. Even an anti-gun cop would probably tend to think the same.

    However, if he walks up to your car knowing nothing about you and the first thing you do is tell him you have a gun, the reaction might be rather unpredictable.

    Also, apart from the LEO's personality andpositionon armedcivilians,a lot of other factors would determine his reaction. What car you drive, what neighbourhood you are in, time of the day, what you are wearing, passengers in the car if any, the way you word your notification, your age, race and gender,etc.

    Just to give 2 extreme examples:if you are a middle aged whitesoccer momdriving anewishHondaminivan with 3 kids in itat 4PM throughan upscale suburb, he would be much more at ease than if you were a black guy in his early 20s dressed like a rapper driving a rigged Caddy with spinning rimsaloneat 2AMthrough a bad neighbourhood.

    You can tell me a 1000 times that profiling is wrong, but it's human nature to use it. Stereotypes exist for a reason, what's really wrong is using a stereotype as a final judgement on every person from the stereotyped group.

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    Chain gun i agree with your statements 100%. We will not change human nature.
    S/F Vic

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    Chaingun81 wrote:

    However, if he walks up to your car knowing nothing about you and the first thing you do is tell him you have a gun, the reaction might be rather unpredictable.
    The technique that I teach, if you have a requirement to tell the police that you are armed or if you have decided to do so, is to hand the officer your driver's license and your CCW permit at the same time. Then the reaction is: What the heck is this....oh CCW, instead of... Gun!!

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    ccwinstructor wrote:
    Chaingun81 wrote:

    However, if he walks up to your car knowing nothing about you and the first thing you do is tell him you have a gun, the reaction might be rather unpredictable.
    The technique that I teach, if you have a requirement to tell the police that you are armed or if you have decided to do so, is to hand the officer your driver's license and your CCW permit at the same time. Then the reaction is: What the heck is this....oh CCW, instead of... Gun!!
    Which accomplishes what? Next thing they'll ask is 'Where is it?' You could've cured that in the first contact. 'Officer,I am armed. How do you wish to proceed?' Let me qualify this with being the former initiator of MANY car stops.Car stops and domestics are inherently dangerous to begin with.Being obnoxious, uncooperative and confrontational / combative will get you arrested. I don't care what your legal excuse spiel is. 'Disorderly Conduct - Fail To Obey' will get you locked up. What I see here is 'assumptions' of bad cop behavior. What the hell ever happened to civility? Gettin' your car tossed is not the norm. That happens when you get arrested however. It's called 'inventory search' before the vehicle heads to the impound lot.

    'You get stopped.Roll the winddow down. Turnoff the engine and radio. Place both hands on top of the steering wheel. If a cop sees you or passengers'reachin' for anything before they get there... they will assume it's a weapon or you're hiding something. They have to. There's this thing... Reasonable and Prudent behavior. A car stop is a technical arrest. 'Don't matter how you view it... that's what it is. You can make it smooth or you can make it... whatever. But you'll be on the other end of the consequences.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    ccwinstructor wrote:
    Chaingun81 wrote:

    However, if he walks up to your car knowing nothing about you and the first thing you do is tell him you have a gun, the reaction might be rather unpredictable.
    The technique that I teach, if you have a requirement to tell the police that you are armed or if you have decided to do so, is to hand the officer your driver's license and your CCW permit at the same time. Then the reaction is: What the heck is this....oh CCW, instead of... Gun!!
    Which accomplishes what? Next thing they'll ask is 'Where is it?' You could've cured that in the first contact. 'Officer,I am armed. How do you wish to proceed?' Let me qualify this with being the former initiator of MANY car stops.Car stops and domestics are inherently dangerous to begin with.Being obnoxious, uncooperative and confrontational / combative will get you arrested. I don't care what your legal excuse spiel is. 'Disorderly Conduct - Fail To Obey' will get you locked up. What I see here is 'assumptions' of bad cop behavior. What the hell ever happened to civility? Gettin' your car tossed is not the norm. That happens when you get arrested however. It's called 'inventory search' before the vehicle heads to the impound lot.

    'You get stopped.Roll the winddow down. Turnoff the engine and radio. Place both hands on top of the steering wheel. If a cop sees you or passengers'reachin' for anything before they get there... they will assume it's a weapon or you're hiding something. They have to. There's this thing... Reasonable and Prudent behavior. A car stop is a technical arrest. 'Don't matter how you view it... that's what it is. You can make it smooth or you can make it... whatever. But you'll be on the other end of the consequences.
    It accomplishes letting the officer know that you are legally permitted to have a concealed weapon. I do not see how it is the least bit uncooperative or combative. I do not see any assumptions of bad cop behavior. While it depends on the state laws, If the firearm is concealed and you are required to have a permit to conceal it, then the officer will be asking you for the permit in any case, once you have declared yourself to be armed. It could make sense to tell the officer that you are handing them the concealed carry permit with the license. I agree that being polite is always a good idea. Treatnearly all police with respect, and they will return the favor, nearly always. Yes, you should always have your hands visible when the officer approaches. It will ease there mind a good bit. I always turn off the radio and the engine, just so that I can hear what the officer is saying. It would also make sense to turn on your recorder, if you have set up technically to do so. Most police stops are routine, but as we have seen in many cases listed on this site, sometimes mistakes are made, and it nice not to have to dispute a "he said she said" type of issue. If I had a recorder going, it would make plenty of sense to verbally and politely tell the officer that I was legally armed.

    It makes sense to be polite. It also makes sense to be aware of your rights and to exercise them, which has only a little to do with the question asked.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    I don't normally carry concealed. I normally have more than one firearm in the vehicle.(One on me and one someplace else) The registration is not 'with' any gun.

    I do not need a permit to OC. If I reach for my wallet to produce my license... the officer is going to know beforehand where that is and where my sidearm is. Also where the 'other gun' is.

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    I always tell they I am carrying a loaded gun and as I hand them my CCW and license if and when I get stopped. I rather put the officer at ease, since when they run my license in my car, they will know I am a CCW and probably packing, I do it out of respect for the LEO's they have a hard enough job. Just my personal feelings.
    S/F Vic

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    So getting stopped at a roadblock is a "technical arrest"????

    What is the justification for this "arrest"??

    No disrespect to LEOs here, but I know my rights, and I have a right against unreasonable search and seizure. NO WAY would I answer any questions, produce any information (license, insurance or otherwise) at a roadblock where there was NO REASON for me to be stopped. If they were to arrest me so be it. I could use the money from the civil rights violation settlement.



    Edit to add that may sound harsh, and I apologize for that, BUT LEOs have no right to ask for ID or anything else unless they have REASONABLE SUSPISCION that a crime has been committed or is about to be committed...period.

    I understand and empathise that LEOs have a tough job, but that's no reason to trample on my civil liberties. In a roadblock situation I will only reply with 2 questions:

    Am I being detained Officer?

    Am I free to go Officer?

    Apologies to all LEOs again, but the Constitution is pretty clear on this issue...


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    After 911 happen probably cause went out the window. Anyone can be stop at anytime the best way to handle it for both party is show respect and they will give respect. It may have been a DUI roadblock, right that is all on the up and up. I think we better think on both sides of the fence before typing. Again this is my personal thoughts.
    S/F Vic

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    reconvic wrote:
    r6-rider wrote:
    i would of thought they would tell you the state law in the CCW class
    Good point there R-6, besides if you tell them in advance it will put them at ease because the minute they run your plate they will know if you are a have a concealed carry permit. To Quote Rebel it is the right thing to do.
    S/F Vic
    Alabama cc class is filling out 1/2 sheet of paper and handing $15 to the sheriff. :celebrate
    Only bad thing is there is no one to ask about laws, but no third party
    ripoff fees either.
    It does cause risks, but I have no doubt that any class couldn't answer my
    questions anyways. Like have I committed a crime if I put a gun
    in the glove box of a car that has escaped from custody(impound)?
    The car has not been convicted to my knowledge, but is on the lamb.

    No notify law, guess I missed the roadblock myself, next time
    consider a U-turn if you have time to listen to ranting when they
    chase you down, and you were not stuck on the divided section of road.
    Just love those Rag Time Cafe sandwiches for lunch.


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    RSXBoi wrote:
    Hi everyone; I am new to the forums. I have been viewing some of the topics that all of you wonderful people have posted, and this has been a very resourceful website with most of my questions. I have a concealed weapons permit and I came accross a road block last night around 11 PM in Leeds, Alabama on Hwy 119 in Jefferson County. About 10 police cars were there and some LEO's were standing in the road with flashlight wands. When I slowed to a stop, I was asked to provide my license and proof of insurance. I have read some sources on the internetthat it is required by law to inform a police officer if you are carrying a concealed weapon. If I was carrying a concealed weapon, should I have informed the police officer? I thought about voluntarily telling him, but I thought since I didn't know if we are required to inform them, that if I told him, that it could've have escalated into a situation where he was asking me to step out of the car or something. Am I required in the state of alabama to inform the police officer requesting my papers at a road block if I am carrying a concealed weapon? If so, how should I expect to be treated?

    First, welcome to OCDO. There has been much ggood advice so far, and the LEGAL answer will vary from state to state.

    That being said, the part in red is significangt - if you aren't familiar with you state's gun laws, you shouldn't be carrying until you become familiar with them.


    Thisis not a slam against you, but is simply advice. try looking at http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/or http://www.gunlaws.com/links/or http://www.handgunlaw.us/for starters. Also go to the Alabama board and search around it for a link to any on-line version of the Alabama code of laws run by the state itself.

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    Always good to know your state rules, I would take classes even though it is not required if possible. A safety course is a must in handling firearms in court. A lawyer will tear you apart otherwise. Train and learn and ask as many questions as possible.
    S/F Vic

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    Here is an excellent resource for the legal aspects of roadblocks:

    http://www.roadblock.org/faq.htm

    I have turned around and gone the long way more than once to avoid a roadblock even though I was doing absolutely nothing illegal. I just do not want to be bothered talking to anyone I don't have to.

    If you cannot turn around safely or do not want to be the subject of undue suspicion, think of the name of the most recent town or highway you just passed by. Go out of your way to call a cop over to your vehicle and ask directions for the above mentioned landmark.

    When they tell you the desired location is behind you, begin to make your u-turn. If they stop you and tell you that you have to go through the checkpoint, now they are detaining you.

    That's when you ask if you are under arrest or free to go.

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