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Paranoid Americans

timf343

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Oct 3, 2007
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Las Vegas, Nevada, United States

r6-rider

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hmm so this is really about cops? my bad i just saw the word army and got a little excited. yea cops can get a little trigger happy sometimes
 

N00blet45

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The police are paramilitary. Besides, the issue is with them dressing up like SWAT (masks and tacticool gear) and busting into houses unannounced for crimes that do not match the response.
 

r6-rider

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yea there were some bad events on that site. not defending them but im sure bad intel played a part on some of the raids. either way i know how some cops can get when they get their adrenaline up and start shooting
 

smoking357

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Doug Huffman wrote:
smoking357 wrote:
New Zealand has somewhat restrictive immigration laws.
Really? Citation please.

I found restrictions on refugee immigration to NZ but none for Americans that are in-country or out.
Go to their immigration page, and check to see what it takes to be granted a long-term visa. Excepting certain professions, it's not terribly easy.
 

N00blet45

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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/28/us/28atlanta.html?_r=4&ref=us&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

That's the worst one I've seen so far. The story is that the officers used a paid informant to raid a house. They falsified the warrant and when it turned out that the house belonged to an 88 year old woman (who was killed in the raid) who was not a criminal they planted drugs in the basement of the house. At least three of the officers were sent to prison.

Anyways, it's not just bad intel but rather the war on drugs and a rush to use all the new toys they have. Small towns (ex Sunrise, Florida) have SWAT teams and then have to justify the cost. So they use the SWAT teams to raid houses when they even have a slight hint that there are drugs involved.

The worst part is that they do raids in the early hours of the morning (usually against non-violent offenders). The problem with that is that there is a much greater chance of the occupants of the house thinking it is a robbery and fighting back. Is it really worth it to send in a SWAT team at 2 in the morning, risking the officers' and the dwellers' safety, to get an ounce of weed?
 

AWDstylez

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, Connecticut, USA
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smoking357 wrote:
New Zealand, another country where the gun laws suck, but the people are far freer than America, and where the cops don't beat the crap out of people.

Unpossible!! Gun rights is all that matters!!



As for the OP, any idiotic mall ninja that uses terms like "condition orange" is best ignored as a piss-poor representation of the rest of us, more reasonable,American gun owners.
 

smoking357

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AWDstylez wrote:
smoking357 wrote:
New Zealand, another country where the gun laws suck, but the people are far freer than America, and where the cops don't beat the crap out of people.

Unpossible!! Gun rights is all that matters!!



As for the OP, any idiotic mall ninja that uses terms like "condition orange" is best ignored as a piss-poor representation of the rest of us, more reasonable,American gun owners.
Me not smart? Unpossible!

Yeah, I'll take 72, verdant, peaceful and trapshooting over most things.

Great post, and spot on with the "condition orange" comment.
 

Doug Huffman

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smoking357 wrote:
Go to their immigration page, and check to see what it takes to be granted a long-term visa. Excepting certain professions, it's not terribly easy.
Must your point of view coloring 'ease' subjectively.

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/
The Skilled Migrant Category is the main path to residence in New Zealand.
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/skilledmigrant/overview/default.htm
To apply under the Skilled Migrant Category, you must meet our requirements. You need to be aged from 20-55 (inclusive). You also have to meet our standards of health, character, and English language proficiency before you start the process.
 

smoking357

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Doug Huffman wrote:
smoking357 wrote:
Go to their immigration page, and check to see what it takes to be granted a long-term visa. Excepting certain professions, it's not terribly easy.
Must your point of view coloring 'ease' subjectively.

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/
The Skilled Migrant Category is the main path to residence in New Zealand.
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/skilledmigrant/overview/default.htm
To apply under the Skilled Migrant Category, you must meet our requirements. You need to be aged from 20-55 (inclusive). You also have to meet our standards of health, character, and English language proficiency before you start the process.
Now do the points calculation and analysis. If you're an engineer or a physician, you're in. Just about anything else, and you're told that while you have enough points, they aren't currently selecting people from your rank.
 

smoking357

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Doug Huffman wrote:
smoking357 wrote:
Doug Huffman wrote:
smoking357 wrote:
Go to their immigration page, and check to see what it takes to be granted a long-term visa. Excepting certain professions, it's not terribly easy.
Must your point of view coloring 'ease' subjectively.
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/
The Skilled Migrant Category is the main path to residence in New Zealand.
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/skilledmigrant/overview/default.htm
To apply under the Skilled Migrant Category, you must meet our requirements. You need to be aged from 20-55 (inclusive). You also have to meet our standards of health, character, and English language proficiency before you start the process.
Now do the points calculation and analysis. If you're an engineer or a physician, you're in. Just about anything else, and you're told that while you have enough points, they aren't currently selecting people from your rank.
Nawp. I've done enough of your research - you made the assertion of "not terribly easy".

I'm in on 'engineer' but out on age.
I never asked you to do a thing. You're the one who disagreed with reality and intruded. Hopefully, you can take this as a learning experience and not disagree with genuinely intelligent people.

Damn. This gets tedious.
 

nzrugby

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Seems to be some confusion, NZ police are in the main not armed when going about their normal duties.
Firearms are available but the vast majority of the police do not carry them.
Nor do the vast majority want to.

Of course if push comes to shove and some group wants trouble, well our SAS are happy to see to their needs.

Immigration, forget the fifty five year mark, any person over forty five coming into NZ on the skilled path would have to have a skill we are badly short of.

Of course one could be like my American neighbor and stay the full six months allowed each calender year when one is retired.
He owns a house here
He does get two summers each year.

A question, I was told that some schools in the USA teach in Spanish, why would they do that ?
 

marshaul

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Doug Huffman wrote:
r6-rider wrote:
smoking357 wrote:
and I continually have to worry about a domestic army, a million strong, who can kill me with impunity.
lol your joking right?
He needn't be.  Regular cops number 850,000 and are seldom prosecuted for killing subjects.  Add the special federal internal armed forces - BATFEDHSICE - and the number is easily a million killing with impunity.
You got that right.
 

marshaul

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r6-rider wrote:
yea there were some bad events on that site. not defending them but im sure bad intel played a part on some of the raids. either way i know how some cops can get when they get their adrenaline up and start shooting
You're right, that justifies it all. We have nothing to worry about with a massive federal paramilitary police force, because they *might* get good intel!
 

R a Z o R

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nzrugby ,

How often do wish you were in the U.S.A. ?

Tomorrow me lady and I are going to the Johnny Depp premier .

The 4th of July we're heading to Charlotte , NC to open carry at an Independence Day celebration .

Until true peace is brought to the earth I promise to you that I willhold on to my weapons .

Are you permitted to carry a pocket knife ?
 

marshaul

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nzrugby wrote:
Seems to be some confusion, NZ police are in the main not armed when going about their normal duties.
Firearms are available but the vast majority of the police do not carry them.
Nor do the vast majority want to.
Here in America, the easiest way for people to get over the idea of armed thugs being a good thing (so long as they're called "POLICE") is to re-create a society where people rely on themselves and their neighbors for protection and community policing, and, in so doing, demonstrate the non-necessity of heavily armed, aggressive police.

Open carry is a part of that.
 

Felid`Maximus

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Joined
Nov 12, 2007
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Reno, Nevada, USA
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So New Zealand is a totally safe place where self-defense is never necessary?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

This place has some murder rates listed. (Even NZ is not free of murders.) Notice how a lot of the countries on the list have very stringent gun controls and more murders than the United States. Banning guns does not prevent criminals from having them, nor does it prevent people from killing each other with knives and other weapons.

The very existence of an armed offender division of your police indicates to me that there might be a few armed offenders there.

Within the United States, the highest crime rates are often where guns are most restricted, such as Chicago and Washington D.C.. Guns are very simple objects and simple ones can be made from simple hand tools and everyday objects. I once read a document about the prevelance of home-made guns in D.C.. But based on how you think there is no weapons in New Zealand, I'm sure nobody in New Zealand has access to basic hand tools or plumbing pipes since these could be used as weapons even if they weren't used to make weapons.

I'm sure there are not any vicious dogs or wildlife in New Zealand either.

The existence of crime in a region of course and whether or not guns exist does not prove a causation. (Coorelation does not equal causation.) If you took into account the clothes worn during automobile accidents you would falsely come to the conclusion that leather jackets and helmets cause severe injury and death using this flawed logic. To the contrary, leather jackets and helmets are worn by motorcyclists to prevent injury. Motorcycles accidents just happen to be a lot more likely to cause severe injury and death than car accidents, and motorcyclists tend to wear leather jackets and helmets whereas people who drive cars do not.

Instead, look at how the crime rate has changed, before and after gun control. In many U.S. states, crime fell once it became possible for people to easily gain permits to carry guns concealed. In many countries like England in Australia their violent crime rates like murder have always been lower per capita than in the United States even when gun ownership was not so hard in these countries. I think you will find if you look at the statistics, that in these countries when they began implementing stringent gun laws the crime did not decrease as a result. In most of the studies I have read existing trends of reducing crime rates slowed down after the creation of harsh gun laws, and in some cases crime began to rise afterwards.

Why is Spanish taught in a lot of American schools? Well a lot of people in America speak Spanish. It is the second most prevalent language and due to immigration it is possible that in not too long a majority will likely speak it. To be a succesful business person you will want to be able to speak the langauge of the people you sell products to ;) In most places it is still optional to take a second language and there are often other choices like French, but Spanish is the most popular because it is most useful in America.

I'd prefer to carry my gun with me anywhere I went, no matter how safe it is. Call it paranoid if you wish. It doesn't interfere with daily living anymore than carrying around any other objects people commonly carry such as flashlights, cell phones, ipods, multitools etc. Even if you do consider it paranoid, why should people not be allowed to satisfy their paranoia as you see it by carrying a weapon? A handgun is a very easy object to carry and it is a good insurance against being robbed, injured, or killed, or having this happen to someone who is near (like family members).

To me there is extreme indignity in cooperating with the demands of criminals who have your life in their hands. I hope to never be in a situation where I would have to.

And in my opinion guns do reduce crime and deter foreign invasions. If everyone carried a gun at all times (and knew how to use it) crime would be much reduced. In addition to self-defense, in the perspective of some people it could be almost thought of as a civic virtue for the societal benefits. I also think people are much more polite when they are all well armed and they know everyone else is too. Why isn't America like this? Well most Americans do not carry guns. In addition to some who simply do not want to (and should not be forced to), this is in part due to being deterred by what I would consider laws that are too harsh and make it too difficult for the average person. Most want to carry concealed, and in most places a permit is required to do this. In addition to passing stringent permitting requirements and pay special taxes they also have to keep track of and avoid a wide variety of places where guns are banned (such as federal buildings and educational facilities,) and keep track of a lot of other complex laws that change from place to place. This is too much work for a lot of people. More than a third of Americans have guns in their house but at most only a few percent of Americans carry firearms. And many of the houses that have guns do not have them prepared for self-defense because they are locked away and innaccessible when needed.
 
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