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Thread: Ohio Court of Appeals Ruling

  1. #1
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    From Ohio vs Holly (June 2009):

    ...A person may not be detained, even momentarily, without reasonable, objective grounds to do so.
    State v. Robinette (1997), 80 Ohio St.3d 234, 240, citing Florida v. Royer(1983), 460 U.S. 491, 497-498, 103 S.Ct. 1319, 75 L.Ed.2d 229...

    ...Despite the State’s argument that Holly was stopped because the police had a reasonable suspicion that he was engaged in drug activity, Detective Mitchell’s testimony was clear: the only reason Holly was stopped was to determine his identity. In America, however, the police may not stop an individual for the sole purpose of compelling him to identify himself...

    It might be kinda handy to check out that cited case, Florida vs Royer.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  2. #2
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    Aha! Here is a handy little nugget from Florida vs Royer:

    ...He may not be detained even momentarily without reasonable, objective grounds for doing so; and his refusal to listen or answer does not, without more, furnish those grounds. United States v. Mendenhall...

    http://supreme.justia.com/us/460/491/case.html
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
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    Wow this is surprising Go Ohio, I live in Kent and get pulled over just about everynight for having a crappy looking car and somehow this is reasonable suspicion hummmmm. But at least this is Ohio and not Philly

  4. #4
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    Hey thanks Citizen,Bravo Tengo Whiskey how is Farifax I was going to go back and visit I havent been there in 11 years since my fam was stationed at Ft Belvoir. Is Farifax pretty OC friendly?

  5. #5
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    Bustelo5% wrote:
    Hey thanks Citizen,Bravo Tengo Whiskey how is Farifax I was going to go back and visit I havent been there in 11 years since my fam was stationed at Ft Belvoir. Is Farifax pretty OC friendly?
    In Fairfax County the police are aware that OC alone is not grounds for a Terry Stop.

    This probably applies to most NoVA jurisdictions. Its been about year since the last trouble with police in NoVA.

    Even so, I never go inpublic without a voice-recorder. You just never know if there is a anti-gun cop who wants to make trouble, or an anti-gunner making a false report to 911.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
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    Bustelo5% wrote:
    Wow this is surprising Go Ohio, I live in Kent and get pulled over just about everynight for having a crappy looking car and somehow this is reasonable suspicion hummmmm. But at least this is Ohio and not Philly
    I don't know that the cited cases apply to traffic stops. I don't know that they don't, either.

    Why not start making formal complaints?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
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    Yeah your completly right,I want to figure out how to make a web site like the Massachusetts site where you have an account and you can record convos through your phone. A website for everyone,my friend has a server so storage isnot a prob,hummm this has got me thinking.
    Kent PD is alright when it comes to armed citizens which is pretty cool since Kent people are off their trees but as the old army rule for PT which my Dad made me go to,if your not 30 mins ahead your 30 mins late.Better recorded than not.

    I heard something about DC can you open carry there I thought that a couple of months ago they got freedom again?

  8. #8
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    Well I spoke to the nighttime SGT since I knew a complaint wasnot going to do anything.
    Does the Aclu or someone else have an emergancy appointed attorney number? I guess what I am asking is there any state wide numbers you can call to have an attorney appointed to you.

  9. #9
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    Citizen wrote:
    From Ohio vs Holly (June 2009):


    ...A person may not be detained, even momentarily, without reasonable, objective grounds to do so.
    State v. Robinette (1997), 80 Ohio St.3d 234, 240, citing Florida v. Royer(1983), 460 U.S. 491, 497-498, 103 S.Ct. 1319, 75 L.Ed.2d 229...


    ...Despite the State’s argument that Holly was stopped because the police had a reasonable suspicion that he was engaged in drug activity, Detective Mitchell’s testimony was clear: the only reason Holly was stopped was to determine his identity. In America, however, the police may not stop an individual for the sole purpose of compelling him to identify himself...


    It might be kinda handy to check out that cited case, Florida vs Royer.
    And thids is why we suggest folks detained for mere open carry contact a lawyer and bring suit for damages - the police action is illegal every time, provided there was no reasonble articulable suspicion of crime afoot. Some lawyers will take these cases on contingency (where the lawyer takes a percentage of the damage award).

  10. #10
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    http://vlex.com/vid/59354264

    Here it is, if you want to read it.

  11. #11
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    After reading that I'm guessing the detective won't make that kind of testimony again "I just wanted to identify the individual" and will stick with whatever RAS story he can use.

    I wonder if he got his reefer and piece back?!?!

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