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Thread: Sine Die

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    “Sine Die” is the Latin term the Arizona Legislature uses to signify the adjournment of the legislative session. The Senate adjourned this morning, July 1, 2009 at 7:30 AM. The House adjourned at 7:31 AM. It’s officially over folks. Unless a Special Session is called by the Governor, we have a 6 month reprieve on any further legislative meddling in our lives.

    Unfortunately HB 2439, the AzCDL-requested CCW training reform bill that was amended to include Petty Offense and Defensive Display language, failed in the House at 5:10 AM this morning. It passed in the Senate Third Read by a 18-5-7 vote around 2 AM but when it was voted on in the House Final Read, it failed by one vote, 30-10 with 20 (Yes, twenty!) members not voting. Five of those twenty who were not present for the vote were Republicans who had indicated to us that they would vote for the bill. If they had been present, HB 2439 would have easily passed. You can find how every Representative voted here: http://tinyurl.com/HB2439FinalVote . The Republicans missing during the final vote were Nancy Barto (R7), Rich Crandall (R19), Adam Driggs (R11), Bill Konopnicki (R5), Lucy Mason (R1), and Doug Quelland (R10). If you are in their Districts, please keep this in mind next November.

    Despite the setback with HB 2439, there are four pro-rights bills that made it through the legislative gauntlet and are headed to the governor’s desk. They are SB 1113, SB 1168, SB 1243 and SB 1449.

    SB 1113, a “Restaurant Carry” bill laden with concessions to appease opponents, passed in the House Third Read yesterday (6/30/09) by a 40-19-1 vote. Early this morning, it passed the Senate Final Read by a 19-8-3 vote. In the final version of SB 1113:
    - “Open carry” is not allowed in places serving alcohol. The firearm must be concealed.
    - Only individuals with CCW permits may carry a concealed firearm where alcohol is served.
    - The individual legally carrying the firearm may not consume alcohol.
    - The penalty for violating the law is a class 3 misdemeanor.
    - Establishments may prohibit firearms by posting a sign in a specified location.
    - It is an “affirmative defense” if the person violating the law “was not informed of the notice,” the sign had “fallen down,” the person is not a resident of Arizona, or the posted sign has not been up for 30 days.
    - However, lack of knowledge (by Arizona residents only) that firearms are prohibited in establishments serving alcohol is no longer a valid defense.

    SB 1168 is the Senate bill containing the “strike everything” amendment substituting the language of HB 2474. It passed the Senate Final Read by a vote of 18-9 with 3 not voting. SB 1168 prevents any private or public employer, property owner, etc., from banning any person from keeping a firearm in a locked vehicle in a parking area on the property, with specific limited exceptions. HB 2474, the original “Parking Lot” bill, passed in the House and made it through Senate committees but was dropped when SB 1168 made it through the process first.

    SB 1243 passed the House Third Read by a vote of 42-12-6 on June 29. Since the language in SB 1243 remained unchanged, it was sent back to the Senate where it was formally sent to the Governor this morning. SB 1243 is the AzCDL-requested bill that codifies the defensive display of a firearm.

    Another very important bill that passed this session is SB 1449 which applies, retroactively, statutory changes relating to justification defenses in all cases in which the defendant did not plead guilty or no contest that were submitted to the fact finder as of April 24, 2006. In plain language this means that the restoration of the “innocent until proven guilty” language that passed out of the Legislature via SB 1145 in 2006 retroactively applies to cases pending at the time of passage. The most infamous of these was the trial of Harold Fish, who defended himself while hiking and was prosecuted under the 1997 “guilty until proven innocent” law. Even though SB 1145 became law in the middle of Mr. Fish’s trial, he was convicted under the older law. You can read more about Mr. Fish’s case here: http://www.haroldfishdefense.org/ .

    This has been a very bizarre legislative session. With the focus almost entirely on the budget, very little time was spent on non-budget bills, and there was a mad rush to end the session and filter out as many bills as possible. Without the constant pressure YOU provided via your emails, letter and phone calls, AzCDL’s representatives (who went home this morning after staying all night lobbying and counting votes at the Capitol) would not have been able to keep pro-rights bill in the pipeline. Pat yourselves on the back – Job Well Done!

    Unfortunately, we’re not out of the woods yet. The Legislature may have adjourned but the Governor now has a stack of bills on her desk to sign, ignore or veto. Her priority is the budget. The Legislature deliberately waited until Sine Die to send the budget to the Governor. If she vetoes the budget, state bureaucracies grind to a halt. A “do over” budget will require the Governor to call a Special legislative session, with more delays. It boils down to gamesmanship and who blinks first. All the non-budget bills might become pawns in the power struggle.

    Meanwhile, the next step is to start asking the Governor to sign these bills. Her email address is azgov@az.gov. You can also fax a letter to her at 602-542-1381. Or you can mail it to her at the following address:

    The Honorable Jan Brewer
    Governor of Arizona
    1700 West Washington
    Phoenix, Arizona 85007

    You can call her office, toll free, at 1-800-253-0883 or 602-543-4331.

    You can also go to the Governor’s website, http://azgovernor.gov/Contact.asp, where you will find a fill-in-the-blanks form to register your opinion. For "subject", scroll down and select "Legislation." For "topic", fill in the number of the bill you are making a comment on (e.g., SB 1243). In the message/comment area, leave a polite message asking her to sign the bill you are referring to. We recommend a separate message for each bill.

    Stay tuned! We will notify you on the fate of legislation via these Alerts and Twitter.

    These alerts are a project of the Arizona Citizens Defense League (AzCDL), an all volunteer, non-profit, non-partisan grassroots organization. Join today!

    AzCDL – Protecting Your Freedom
    http://www.azcdl.org/html/join_us_.html


    Copyright © 2009 Arizona Citizens Defense League, Inc., all rights reserved.


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    If the Governor signs the bill, the law takes effect immediately if it was emergency or Proposition 108 legislation; otherwise the law takes effect 90 days after the Legislature adjourns sine die. Proposition 108 requires legislation that provides a net increase in state revenues to receive a two-thirds majority vote in each house of the Legislature. Such bills become effective immediately upon the governor’s signature

    S/F Vic

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    She vetoed the budget! The Legislature will be called back into special session! Any chance they will move to reconsider HB 2439? Is it even procedurally possible to do so?

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Dahwg wrote:
    She vetoed the budget! The Legislature will be called back into special session! Any chance they will move to reconsider HB 2439? Is it even procedurally possible to do so?
    The Speical Session was called only for the budget. The successor of HB 2439 will have to wait until next session.



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    So this means my employer can not fire me due to keeping a firearm in my car? My employer does prohibit that in their code of conduct.

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    I think since it was not signed into law, your employer still could terminate employment. Is this correct Fred?

    http://www.azopencarry.com

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    Correct for sure, the Governor has not signed it yet yet, and after she does it will take 90 days to go into effect. according to Az. law.
    I am heading out to Scottsdale Gun club today for a few hours hope you all train hard I go 2 times every week, and compete in the fall.
    Vic

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    Well yeah, I mean after the governor signs it and it goes into law..

    I'll have to bring this up to my employer when it does go into law. Make them change the code of conduct

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    I was thinking about that as well...not sure if I will. I work for one of the largest financial institutions in the US if not the largest and I am not sure that they would not just relocate everyone's job to another state if someone made them aware of it. (That being said, I did speak to the security guards about it...you know the lady who is 25 years old, 90lbs wet and4'6" not armed... she and the others did not like the idea at all)

    I am now in the mindset of once it is legal, its legal and I will carry to work every day, and I can't wait until that day happens. It scares the hell out of me that everyday my wife and I are not able to defend ourselves when we drive to and from work.

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    I will wait and see if they change it.. if they don't I may say something.

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    It scares the hell out of me that everyday my wife and I are not able to defend ourselves when we drive to and from work.
    I find it "scary" that you would even follow such a ridiculous policy in the first place. My company does say in their policy that employees can leave their firearms or other weapons in their vehicles but that they need to be properly secured and out of sight. They also have a posted sign on the entrance against weapons in the building. Of course they never do searches and with it being over 100 degrees outside, there is no reason I should not carry my gun in the building concealed (I have a CCW permit) and what they don't know doesn't hurt them. I consider my safety and my life above any government law or company policy.

    Your company obviously has a more extreme policy as they don't even want guns in people's cars. Unless they are actually searching vehicles, I can't imagine why you would not bring your gun to work and at least leave in the car out of sight. Who cares if it is against their policy? They have no legal grounds to search your car and if consenting to have your car searched was a job requirement then you could just as easily park it on a nearby street or neighboring parking lot unowned by them. I would start carrying if I were you and just keep quiet about it.

    I always find it a bit disturbing how some people are such "perfect citizens" that they will never ever break any law or rule or policy. While I don't advocate outright criminal destructive conduct, people need to make up their own minds in how they live their lives, regardless of what "laws" and "policies" others seem to think should fit everyone. Some laws are stupid and some are even destructive themselves. A law telling me I can't defend myself is a destructive law to my safety and even the safety of those around me, a law I will and do not follow.



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    I should have said from a legal perspective -"It scares the hell out of me that everyday my wife and I are not able to defend ourselves when we drive to and from work". I can't saymore for fear of black helicopters :shock:

    www.azopencarry.com



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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    protector84 wrote:
    It scares the hell out of me that everyday my wife and I are not able to defend ourselves when we drive to and from work.
    I find it "scary" that you would even follow such a ridiculous policy in the first place. My company does say in their policy that employees can leave their firearms or other weapons in their vehicles but that they need to be properly secured and out of sight. They also have a posted sign on the entrance against weapons in the building. Of course they never do searches and with it being over 100 degrees outside, there is no reason I should not carry my gun in the building concealed (I have a CCW permit) and what they don't know doesn't hurt them. I consider my safety and my life above any government law or company policy.

    Your company obviously has a more extreme policy as they don't even want guns in people's cars. Unless they are actually searching vehicles, I can't imagine why you would not bring your gun to work and at least leave in the car out of sight. Who cares if it is against their policy? They have no legal grounds to search your car and if consenting to have your car searched was a job requirement then you could just as easily park it on a nearby street or neighboring parking lot unowned by them. I would start carrying if I were you and just keep quiet about it.

    I always find it a bit disturbing how some people are such "perfect citizens" that they will never ever break any law or rule or policy. While I don't advocate outright criminal destructive conduct, people need to make up their own minds in how they live their lives, regardless of what "laws" and "policies" others seem to think should fit everyone. Some laws are stupid and some are even destructive themselves. A law telling me I can't defend myself is a destructive law to my safety and even the safety of those around me, a law I will and do not follow.

    Nobody tells me I can't carry. Period. The only time I don't is when they use brute force (more of them than me, and they are ready and willing to kill me for it), and thusly prove that they are the ones who shouldn't be allowed to have guns.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    I'm curious if you guys walk past "No Firearms" signs and wait until someone asks you to leave or do you leave if you see the sign?

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Kildars wrote:
    I'm curious if you guys walk past "No Firearms" signs and wait until someone asks you to leave or do you leave if you see the sign?
    As for me, I simply don't give places like that my money. If it's work, well... I choose to assert my 5th Amendment Rights as well as the 2nd and 4th. ;-)
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Well I took my GF out to eat to a place she really wanted to go to. There was a very small sign that had smaller print that said "No Firearms" on it. She really wanted to eat there so I just kinda ignored it as I don't feel comfortable leaving my gun in my car.. even walked by the manager and nothing was said to me.

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    Crossfire Jedi wrote:
    I think since it was not signed into law, your employer still could terminate employment. Is this correct Fred?

    http://www.azopencarry.com
    Actually, it's sitting on her desk. If she doesn't sign it or veto it by the 13th it becomes law.

    I haven't heard anything about her vetoing the Parking Lot bill yet.

    I don't imagine she's going to actually sign any of these into law. She'd probably rather just let them pass into law without her name on it. Since she's asking for tax increases anyway that puts her on the more Statist side of the Republican Party, making her a Specter Republican. So we're likely to see her avoiding attaching her name to anything that might prevent her from being attractive to migrating California Democrats.

    If Jan Brewer actually signs these I'll be shocked. Either way, in 90-ish days we'll have Parking Lot, Defensive Display, and Innocent Until Proven Guilty. I'm not terribly worried about having Restaurant Carry as I'd rather see us just go for the full boat next year and go for either Utah Carry or Alaska/Vermont Carry.

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